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Into the Wardrobe A Community of Wardrobians 2010-08-26T17:23:08+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/feed.php?f=11&t=6459 2010-08-26T17:23:08+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=206463#p206463 <![CDATA[Re: TWHF and the trilemma]]>
Also, comparing the Trillema to Psyche fails in another way. Psyche is making her claims about another being. Thus the possibility that she is simply misinformed as to the nature of that being is a very real possibility.

Jesus, however, made His claims about Himself. If He claims to be God, but is not, then He is clearly a devil's own liar or a complete madman. For if you truly believe you are God, and if you are not, then you're clearly in need of psychiatric care.

So, in these ways the "Trillema" is inapplicable to the situation in TWHF.

The TWHF situation is somewhat similar to Lucy Pevensie's situation in LWW. The siblings of both Lucy and Orual must consider three possibilities: 1. She is lying, which they know she does not do. 2. She is crazy, which they know she is not. 3. She is telling the truth.

Of course, that still leaves Orual with an option the Pevensies did not have, which is that Psyche was misled. Still, I don't think the Trillema option directly applies.

Statistics: Posted by archenland_knight — 26 Aug 2010, 17:23


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2006-11-02T03:27:41+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=129511#p129511 <![CDATA[TWHF and the trilemma]]> the lord, liar, luny argument is not going to work in a world where they do not exist. he works it in somewhat, as people have shown on this thread, but that argument was not meant for the world of twhf.

Statistics: Posted by gameld — 02 Nov 2006, 03:27


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2006-09-21T08:53:05+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=124106#p124106 <![CDATA[re: TWHF and the trilemma]]> Statistics: Posted by Robert — 21 Sep 2006, 08:53


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2006-09-21T06:18:17+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=124090#p124090 <![CDATA[re: TWHF and the trilemma]]>
Like Christ, when we were still sinners, dying for us.

Statistics: Posted by Steve — 21 Sep 2006, 06:18


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2006-09-19T23:00:21+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=123886#p123886 <![CDATA[Re: TWHF and the trilemma]]>
Steve wrote:
One of the thoughts I had about Till We Have Faces, part of my suspicion that Lewis let his imagination go too far in this story, is this:

Lewis the author of TWHF, provides a counter-argument to Lewis the apologist's most known argument, that we must conclude that Jesus is who He says He is, or else conclude He is a horrible liar or a madman.

But the trilemma logic fails in the world of TWHF. Trilemma logic says we have three options, either Psyche is who she says she is, the wife of the god of the mountain, a liar, or a lunatic. And in the story, both liar and lunatic options are explicitly denied because Orual sees the god of the mountain as well. But I as a reader of TWHF find a fourth option -- the being that Psyche and Orual percieve as the god of the mountain, is a real supernatural being, but is not the god of the mountain, and is not really Psyche's husband. I assume Lewis meant to portray an angel of God, coming to meet Psyche (and eventually Orual too) in their need, but choosing not to reveal to them, or being unable to convince them, that he was not who their traditions and presuppositions told them he was, the god of the mountain.

Or I just had another radical thought about TWHF this morning. Maybe Lewis intended it as an Alternate Theology? (Like Alternate History, where one imagines say that the South won the Civil War, Lewis thought 'imagine the Greek/Near Eastern gods really existed'). I don't think this is what Lewis intended, though.

So any thoughts, anyone?


I think mgton is largely right on.
I just don't see the conclusion of a false god giving himself out to be someone he is not as terribly logical here. Lewis's trilemma includes reasonable possibilities, but not unreasonable ones. I could make up any number of unreasonable possibilities, but they would not be worth considering.

Statistics: Posted by rusmeister — 19 Sep 2006, 23:00


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2006-09-19T19:42:48+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=123863#p123863 <![CDATA[re: TWHF and the trilemma]]> You said, "both liar and lunatic options are explicitly denied because Orual sees the god of the mountain." Well, after Psyche snuck a peak at the god of the mountain (causing him to erupt in anger), Orual saw him; but she didn't deny that she saw him did she? Or are you talking about before Psyche snuck in and tried to see the god, when Orual was getting a drink by the river and she thought she saw him?

By the way, I think that Orual really saw the god (while she was getting a drink), and she knows that she really saw him. But she does't want to see the god of the mountain, so she writes things like "tell me, did I really see the god or did I imagine that I did" (that was a rough paraphrase). Remember that Orual is writing the book that we are reading.

I think the whole thing between Psyche, Orual, and the god of the mountain is similar to the situation in real life where one person becomes a believer in God and the other person doesn't. I think this was the point Lewis was trying to make. (That's if you believe he was trying to make a "point" at all; I sometimes wonder if readers [myself included] try to pull too many "points" out of fictional books.) The speech that Orual makes to the gods at the end, when she is finally saying (or the gods are finally making her say) what she "really means", seems to go along with this.

Statistics: Posted by mgton — 19 Sep 2006, 19:42


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2006-09-19T06:42:36+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6459&p=123759#p123759 <![CDATA[TWHF and the trilemma]]>
Lewis the author of TWHF, provides a counter-argument to Lewis the apologist's most known argument, that we must conclude that Jesus is who He says He is, or else conclude He is a horrible liar or a madman.

But the trilemma logic fails in the world of TWHF. Trilemma logic says we have three options, either Psyche is who she says she is, the wife of the god of the mountain, a liar, or a lunatic. And in the story, both liar and lunatic options are explicitly denied because Orual sees the god of the mountain as well. But I as a reader of TWHF find a fourth option -- the being that Psyche and Orual percieve as the god of the mountain, is a real supernatural being, but is not the god of the mountain, and is not really Psyche's husband. I assume Lewis meant to portray an angel of God, coming to meet Psyche (and eventually Orual too) in their need, but choosing not to reveal to them, or being unable to convince them, that he was not who their traditions and presuppositions told them he was, the god of the mountain.

Or I just had another radical thought about TWHF this morning. Maybe Lewis intended it as an Alternate Theology? (Like Alternate History, where one imagines say that the South won the Civil War, Lewis thought 'imagine the Greek/Near Eastern gods really existed'). I don't think this is what Lewis intended, though.

So any thoughts, anyone?

Statistics: Posted by Steve — 19 Sep 2006, 06:42


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