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Into the Wardrobe A Community of Wardrobians 2010-08-05T19:10:55+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/feed.php?f=55&t=10099 2010-08-05T19:10:55+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=206238#p206238 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]>
In Charles Williams' War in Heaven "Prester John" is described making the same gesture, and the reference to Dante is explicitly given. Well CSL most certainly had read the book, and the "Prester John" character is a messenger, not God (although in a sense a Deus ex machina).

Does this help? Perhaps not, but I do find these links interesting.

Statistics: Posted by agingjb — 05 Aug 2010, 19:10


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2010-08-04T17:36:24+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=206231#p206231 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]>
By the logic of the allegory it seems to me like the Bus Driver would have to be God.

He and the bus for that matter aren't part of Hell but can shrink down small enough to fit in it. Later in the book it's clearly stated that only God can do this.

But it's also said that God, or Jesus, only went into Hell once and preached to everyone. The bus driver doesn't seem to be doing that.

Of course the entire thing isn't meant to be taken literally and is an allegory, a sort of metaphorical demonstration, of how God, Heaven and Hell work, so maybe it doesn't have such a strong need to be completely non-contradictory (as an explanation of a world really presumed to exist would need to be).

Statistics: Posted by mwanafalsafa — 04 Aug 2010, 17:36


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2010-06-18T02:18:47+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205720#p205720 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]> Statistics: Posted by nomad — 18 Jun 2010, 02:18


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2010-06-17T15:26:41+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205713#p205713 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]> Statistics: Posted by paminala — 17 Jun 2010, 15:26


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2010-06-16T02:40:21+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205690#p205690 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]>
Matthew Whaley wrote:
it seems they are so focused on each other that they are oblivious to their evironment and everyone around them.


Yes, but usually being focused on someone other than yourself would put them one step ahead of everyone else in line. Maybe they are the other end of the spectrum from the older couple who left before them. I could easily see how they may have started their journey to the bus stop in that sort of puppy love state, and ended up nagging and squabbling by the time they got there.

Statistics: Posted by nomad — 16 Jun 2010, 02:40


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2010-06-15T08:34:47+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205672#p205672 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]>
Blake: "I wander through each charter'd street", London.

Shelley: "Hell is a city much like London", Peter Bell III.

James Thomson, The City of Dreadful Night.

Charles Williams, "All Hallows' Eve". Now this was written just before TGD. Had CSL read it? Well I think we can be sure that he would have read anything by Williams as soon as it became available. Was it an influence? Not directly I would think, but it does start with ghosts in an empty London. Anyway the book is worth reading. It does lead to my wildest speculation. Williams must have read Eliot's Four Quartets, and with a little shoving I can trace some links between that and "All Hallows' Eve". It would be ironic if CSL picked up anything from Eliot's poetry.

Statistics: Posted by agingjb — 15 Jun 2010, 08:34


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2010-06-13T21:59:36+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205652#p205652 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]> Statistics: Posted by maralewisfan — 13 Jun 2010, 21:59


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2010-06-12T19:52:09+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205646#p205646 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]> Statistics: Posted by Matthew Whaley — 12 Jun 2010, 19:52


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2010-06-12T19:44:36+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205645#p205645 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]>
nomad wrote:
I must confess, I'm not sure what point he was trying to make about the young couple, other than maybe a disapproval of modern fashion. Their contentment (and giggliness) seems out of place in the Grey Town. Are they just distracted?


Maybe I am reading things that aren't there again, but I assumed the young couple to be homosexual. Am I the only one who got that idea?

Statistics: Posted by paminala — 12 Jun 2010, 19:44


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2010-06-12T02:25:31+00:00 http://cslewis.drzeus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10099&p=205632#p205632 <![CDATA[Re: Chapter 1 - The Grey Town]]>
But, I have my book now! w00t! And I'd like to talk a bit more about the people in line and how Lewis plays them against one another. The man in the first couple, for instance, who doesn't get on the bus to spite his partner (I assume his wife). His insistence that he never wanted to go makes it quite clear that he does want to go, but would rather give it up than to let her "win". I presume the wife was doing the same thing, although she doesn't say enough to be sure. But to my mind, they probably both really did want to go, but valued "getting the upper hand" over the other more.

And then the short man and the Big man show two seemingly opposite attitudes which are really facets of the same problem. They both take great pride in their status. While the short man is obvious about it, the Big Man veils his in false humility but really he considers his station as a "plain man" to be morally superior to the hoity toity short man. His concern with his rights is smoke and mirrors too... since he was standing in front of the short man so obviously wasn't being denied his rights.

I must confess, I'm not sure what point he was trying to make about the young couple, other than maybe a disapproval of modern fashion. Their contentment (and giggliness) seems out of place in the Grey Town. Are they just distracted?

Statistics: Posted by nomad — 12 Jun 2010, 02:25


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