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Space Trilogy Movies?

Open the pod bay doors, Hnau!

No nudes is good nudes?

Postby Kanakaberaka » 23 Dec 2009, 15:24

arowhena wrote:What about the nakedness of the Green Lady and Ransom? Movie audiences would never accept it nor understand it. Take away their nakedness and you remove a central theme from of the story.


I can imagine a sort of Austin Powers routine where strategicly placed flora and fauna block Ransom's and Tinindril's private parts. It would be quite easy with CGI. For conversations they can be framed from the shoulders up. And for long shots, there's nothing wrong with silhouettes against the gorgeous seascape and floating landscapes.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby arowhena » 25 Dec 2009, 02:50

I disagree. Their private parts must be visible – nothing must be hidden. The central theme of Perelandra is as much about “newness” as it is about “innocence.” The very idea that "things" should be covered up would simply destroy the story – completely.

Don’t you see how utterly ridiculous the story would seem in a visual context if this “newness” and the “innocence” were somehow disguised?

While reading the book one does not feel embarrassed for either the Lady or Ransom. The world of Perelandra is neither more special nor more fantastic than Earth would have been to Eve when tempted – this parallel is essential and binding – it cannot be altered. Lewis meant the story of Perelandra to be about us and for us and no other. Our nakedness, in our world, and before God, and before each other, should not be confused with sexuality but rather, intertwined into our physical human essence; our very nature if you will -- to remove it would be tantamount to breathing life into Westson, the Un-man; the Satan.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby agingjb » 25 Dec 2009, 10:56

Nudity would the lesser problem (although, I would say, insoluble in practice). I think Lewis makes it clear that the Lady should not be played by any actress - and the mere idea that she could at one point indicates her spiritual peril.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby arowhena » 20 Feb 2010, 16:55

Just saw the movie “Watchmen,” the director’s cut.

The blue guy is completely naked throughout the movie. You see everything; quite natural, and not at all sexual in any way. So, maybe it is possible…

There are two other naked scenes in the Trilogy I think everyone forgets.

The first is in “Out of the Silent Planet” during the journey to and from Mars. Basically, we could put this down to the obvious fact that C.S. Lewis and most other Englishmen of the time could never even conceive of the idea of air-conditioning and so this nakedness could probably be ignored.

The other is at the end of THS when the bad guys strip before the Head. This would be an important scene because it demonstrates nakedness before the devil and the ugliness, weakness and helplessness of the human body – at least in the mind’s eye of the beast – as he sees us.

Also agingjb, you are right about the idea of the “actress” concept in Perelandra but I think Lewis meant this idea more in light of the Greek Tragedy.

“…Definition: Tragedy depicts the downfall of a noble hero or heroine, usually through some combination of hubris, fate, and the will of the gods. The tragic hero's powerful wish to achieve some goal inevitably encounters limits, usually those of human frailty (flaws in reason, hubris, society), the gods (through oracles, prophets, fate), or nature. Aristotle says that the tragic hero should have a flaw and/or make some mistake (hamartia). The hero need not die at the end, but he / she must undergo a change in fortune. In addition, the tragic hero may achieve some revelation or recognition (anagnorisis--"knowing again" or "knowing back" or "knowing throughout" ) about human fate, destiny, and the will of the gods. Aristotle quite nicely terms this sort of recognition "a change from ignorance to awareness of a bond of love or hate…" (http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Tragedy.htm)

See what I mean. So – yes – real actors could be used.

Is anyone working on the screen-play? If not, perhaps we should figure out a way to do it here, as a collaborative effort. What do you think?
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby agingjb » 20 Feb 2010, 21:13

Sorry, but I think Lewis is quite clear. The Lady is only capable of being played by an actress ("very nobly played by an actress who was a good woman in real life") at one point, and he says of that: "remembering all that he had read in her countenance before, the unselfconscious radiance, the frolic sanctity, the depth of stillness that reminded him sometimes of infancy and sometimes of extreme old age while the hard youth and valiancy of face and body denied both, he found this new expression horrifying."
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby CSLFAN » 21 Feb 2010, 17:48

Hey, just thought I'd put in my two cents. I read the Space Trilogy of Christmas break and thought it was very good. I also thought that film versions of the books would be neat to see, if done well.

As far as the nudity in Perelandra, I think it would be possible to handle it tastefully. The idea that came to my mind was to treat Tinidril in a similar manner to Mystique from the X-Men films. The actress who played her was technically nude, but her "sensitive areas" were covered with scale-like prosthetics, giving her a kind of reptilian quality. I think that a creative artistic team could do something similar while making Tinidril still appear human and not humanoid creature. I think Ransom's nudity could be easily handled, as far as editing goes.

Another point I thought about would be that the films should have a quality like the LOTR films or the Narnia films. That is, talented, preferable British actors/actresses (or ones who could play a British character well); good location shooting when possible; reasonable, but not over the top, use of CG environments, etc.

And personally, I would think that the Sorns and Hrossa would have to either be CG (like Aslan in the Walden films) or VERY well-done animatronics.

Also, here's an interesting question. Should the scientific inconsistencies in the books, (petrified forests on Mars, civilization on the far side of the Moon) be kept accurate to the book in a 1940's, pre-space travel style, or altered a bit to reflect modern science?
(I didn't add Venus's water surface to the above list because it came to me that a film version of Perelandra could have a scene at the end where it is implied that Venus' "true nature" as a paradise could be concealed with some type of divine illusion so that humans would only see it, from the outside, as a volcanic wasteland.)
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Retro-science

Postby Kanakaberaka » 21 Feb 2010, 23:27

CSLFAN wrote:Also, here's an interesting question. Should the scientific inconsistencies in the books, (petrified forests on Mars, civilization on the far side of the Moon) be kept accurate to the book in a 1940's, pre-space travel style, or altered a bit to reflect modern science?
(I didn't add Venus's water surface to the above list because it came to me that a film version of Perelandra could have a scene at the end where it is implied that Venus' "true nature" as a paradise could be concealed with some type of divine illusion so that humans would only see it, from the outside, as a volcanic wasteland.)


I don't see anyting wrong about ignoring contemporary science to convey the 1940's style science fiction feel. In fact Lewis' space trilogy has always been meant as a sort of modern fairy tale. So I don't feel any need to update the story to fit real scientific facts.
As for the watery appearance of Perelandra - Carl Sagan once mentioned on his Cosmos TV series that Venus was once thought to be covered with an ocean of carbonated water. This was years before Lewis wrote his trilogy, so he must have deliberatly chosen an obsolete speculation about Venus to fit his story.
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Re: Retro-Science

Postby CSLFAN » 23 Feb 2010, 14:40

I just thought I'd ask. At least for me, I would not mind seeing a blending of both the story and scientific evidence. I think that it would add another layer of believability for the viewers, so as to create a kind of "Wow, it's like this really could have happened!" effect. Kind of like when one reads the Lord of the Rings, and sees how Tolkien tried to root his story in reality as much as possible by connecting it not only with the Bible but with pre-history and geological evidence. Anyway, just a thought.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby arowhena » 05 Mar 2010, 01:15

I like the modern fairy tale idea. In fact, that is the way it must be approached. I’m currently reading George MacDonald’s “Phantastes” and have no doubt that Lewis drank-this-book-in before he sat down and penned the three books of the Trilogy. Lewis, I feel, meant for his trilogy to be a modern day romp through a modern day Fairy Land, i.e. our solar system. The plot twists with Christianity may confuse movie goers, but like most people who read the trilogy, you realize the complementary nature of the storyline as it travels with Ransom from planet to planet. For some odd reason, in such a specific genre as science fiction, Christianity works. In the end, such a movie going experience may make most people think about Christ in a more universal way instead of thinking about Him as someone who simply lived and died somewhere in our past. Lewis’s compelling idea of “Deep Heaven” is pretty appealing, regardless of your belief system.

Keeping a fairy tale theme in mind would be essential in squeezing the grandeur from the trilogy. In fact, ignoring science-fact and just following the story would probably cause most viewers to likely believe that there is life on Mars and that Venus is actually covered with oceans (and I see no harm in that). I believe that these visual aspects should not be strayed from. I read “Out of the Silent Planet,” (for the first time) thirty years ago and never forgot Lewis’s use of color. After that, no book I ever read again could compare to the descriptive depth of “Out of the Silent Planet,” (that includes Perelandra).

After watching the “Watchmen’ movie I’m pretty sure any and all barriers to nudity should be of no concern. I am also convinced, that I am correct, that “yes,” a real actress can be used to play the “Lady.”

Everyone seems to forget that C.S. Lewis was not only a “great” writer but a “great” reader as well. It appears that he read everything he could get his hands on, and I am convinced that he used agingjb’s argument (above) as simply a creative mechanism to explain why or how someone so innocent could be captivated in mood and emotion by so sly a beast.

Now, if nudity is not a problem – what of the extreme violence at the end of THS? I ask this because I don’t believe Lewis meant for this book to be a horror story. But, without doubt, the ending of the book is more violent than anything ever dreamed up by Steven King.
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earlier green lady

Postby Kanakaberaka » 05 Mar 2010, 01:55

arowhena wrote:After watching the “Watchmen’ movie I’m pretty sure any and all barriers to nudity should be of no concern. I am also convinced, that I am correct, that “yes,” a real actress can be used to play the “Lady.”


In the 1981 film Quest for Fire actress Rae Dawn Chong spends most of her screen time wearing nothing but green paint. So I doubt that the nudity itself would be that much of a problem. It's just that the religious target audience any of Lewis' works might be reluctant to accept casual nudity.
Personaly it's no big deal to me.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby agingjb » 05 Mar 2010, 10:19

Tolkien remarked: "Fantastic forms are not to be counterfeited"; would CSL have agreed?
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby CSLFAN » 14 Mar 2010, 13:24

I'm not sure if this question has been asked in this thread yet, so what kind of music would the movies have? Personally, I would love to have some of Immediate Music's themes used, even if it's just in the movie trailers. Something orchestral, but a bit different from the symphony-like themes from Star Wars. I think that "Serenata" would fit Perelandra perfectly!
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby Kanakaberaka » 14 Mar 2010, 14:09

CSLFAN wrote:I'm not sure if this question has been asked in this thread yet, so what kind of music would the movies have? Personally, I would love to have some of Immediate Music's themes used, even if it's just in the movie trailers. Something orchestral, but a bit different from the symphony-like themes from Star Wars. I think that "Serenata" would fit Perelandra perfectly!


Have you checked out this thread here in the Wardrobe? :

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9977

It's from a band called We Sell Sea Shells and they have composed their own tone poem sort of music inspired by the Trilogy.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby Kanakaberaka » 15 Mar 2010, 02:27

agingjb wrote:Tolkien remarked: "Fantastic forms are not to be counterfeited"; would CSL have agreed?


After looking through three books of C.S. Lewis essays this evening, I could not find the quote I was looking for. But I remember Lewis saying somewhere that it is a waste of time for an author to be totaly original in everything he writes. We have all been influenced by so many stories we have heard and read that it is impossible to create a completely original tale without making a reference to them.
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Re: Space Trilogy Movies?

Postby agingjb » 15 Mar 2010, 09:05

I'm not sure that the quote I gave from Tolkien (from "On Fairy-Stories" in "Tree and Leaf") is relevant to originality. It is from the section on Fantasy, in a paragraph that starts "In human art Fantasy is a thing best left to words, to true literature."
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