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Perelandra-the devil.

PostPosted: February 14th, 2007, 8:39 pm
by 42missy42
I was just re-reading a section of Perelandra for my essay...again, anyhow, this section really struck me...this is when Ransom is recovering from the faint he went into after seeing the Un-man's face a little closer.
"As he lay there, still unable and perhaps unwilling to rise, it came into his mind that in certain old philosophers and poets he had read that the mere sight of the devils was one of the greatest among the torments of Hell. It had seemed to him till now merely as quaint fancy. And yet (as he now saw) even the children know better: no child would have any difficulty in understanding that there might be a face the mere beholding of which was final calamity...."
Long quote, I know, but why did Ransom faint here, and not later on when he was debating with the Un-man, or while he was fighting him? If his face is so terrible, wouldn't Ransom have had no chance in his fight?

PostPosted: February 14th, 2007, 8:47 pm
by 42missy42
and one more thing...sorry, anyhow, the part where it says
"(Un-man) It was beyond vice as the Lady was beyond virtue."
So why does Lewis make the first meeting of Ransom and the Un-man so dramatic, and the first meeting of the Lady and Ransom seem so petty?

PostPosted: February 15th, 2007, 3:18 pm
by Mavramorn

PostPosted: February 15th, 2007, 4:23 pm
by 42missy42
Ohhhh ok...I never thought of that...duh. lol :rolleyes:

PostPosted: March 2nd, 2007, 2:12 am
by Maid of Ithilien
Also perhaps it was the unnatural-ness of the expression that so shocked and dazed him that he fainted--but having seen it once and thought about it, discerning the nature of the expression as "Un-man" or devilish (in the true, literal sense of the word), he could then brace himself for the physiological impact of such evil meeting his soul through his own eyes (the gates of the soul). It took him by surprise once and he was not ready for it, nor did he comprehend it, thus he fainted. Next time, he was ready for it and strengthened by his understanding of what it was.

Facing the Un-Man

PostPosted: June 10th, 2007, 4:16 am
by Kanakaberaka

PostPosted: December 10th, 2007, 6:44 am
by The Revanchist
Well, yeah. God doesn't want robots. If he did, he would have made us that way. He wants us to choose to follow Him of our own free will.

Back on subject: Obviously Maledil (Jesus) helped Ransom during the fight. My main "objection" to the fight is that demon possessed people HAVE been noted to posses "unnatural" strength.

However, Jesus can order demons around, and they have to obey Him. Perhaps He ordered them not to increase Weston's strength, but only to control his body.

PostPosted: August 5th, 2008, 4:55 pm
by Dick Devine

PostPosted: August 5th, 2008, 5:55 pm
by archenland_knight

PostPosted: August 5th, 2008, 6:11 pm
by Stanley Anderson
You mean they don't turn their heads around 360 degrees and spew green vomit? How boring.

--Stanley

PostPosted: August 5th, 2008, 7:42 pm
by archenland_knight
According to Screwtape, "boring" is the plan. Hiding their existence makes it easier to tempt people toward materialism. Again ... according to Screwtape.

But now, this isn't a Screwtape thread, is it?

PostPosted: September 10th, 2008, 4:29 pm
by Mornche Geddick

Quite

PostPosted: October 30th, 2008, 10:39 am
by Dick Devine
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Agree with comments re: bodies. The devil does not have the power to perform miracles surely. Of course if given power over a body it might decide to extract every possible ounce of force from it (to the detriment of that body); could be surprising to an onlooker.

Introduction to Paradise Lost?

PostPosted: November 7th, 2008, 1:43 pm
by alcuin
A very helpful book in understanding the Space Trilogy, and especially Perelandra, is C.S. Lewis' Introduction to Paradise Lost. Perelandra, is of course, Paradise Retained. Lews discusses the nature of evil and sin in the book, but he also takes about the differences between nature and will. The nature of Lucifer in Milton's epic retains its angelicness, as it were, but it is the will which is corrupted. So there is something of the power of God's creation still present within the corrupted demonic angelic rebels. The smile of the Unman, and indeed, everything about the corrupt possession of the of the Unman shows this. Likewise in nature, Weston, the vehicle of the Unman, as it were, is also human and has the nature of human.

The corruption of the will is the distinction. Ransom is the agent of Maleldil through Oyarsa Malacandra, but he has the choice of using his will to obey or not. It is the same basic problem with the Green Lady: willing obedience. And that choice of will is free. Whatever happened to Weston to cause him to choose to will himself under the the eldila of Thulcandra, once having done so, there is no freedom. Ransom is not sure whether the pleading voice of Weston really is him, or a further perversion of his Enemy in Weston-Unman. Will here is obviously also linked to reason, because reason and rationality are just a tool for the Unman and it will resort to the torture of animals and irrationality, unwilled behaviour when it does not need to use it.

The smile is angelic and powerful, because that is of the nature of the controller of the Unman.

PostPosted: November 7th, 2008, 4:10 pm
by Stanley Anderson