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Which is your favourite of the ST?

Open the pod bay doors, Hnau!

12
22%
20
37%
22
41%
 
Total votes : 54

Postby cyranorox » May 30th, 2008, 3:53 am

I caution against teeter-totter antinomies; not this but that is the real whatever. It can often be neither.

That the workplace can be preferable to the home [in due proportion of the day] seems indisputable- in fact, most men do prefer it. For most office workers, and i have been one from the lowest levels, there is quiet, cleanliness, and order; somewhat limited demands, some formality of respect, and a sense that you could leave. Biggest, though, is the company of those who do not scream, barf, drool, drip snot, or throw things. All these, in the context of love, are tolerable, but a full day with a sick two year old is awful, even if there is no real fear for his life.

Teaching 'everything' is deceptive language, because it is largely teaching what we don't want to occupy ourselves with - basic management of the body and basic self control. Lessons are repetitive and difficult. Again, the rewards are great, but there are days it seems utterly miserable.

Many, if not most, women do choose this way of life; society should be arranged so that they prosper and so that as many as make the choice, can have it without disaster. But to over-generalize and say that women ought to so choose, which means saying that the women who dont want it ought to choose it, is quite wrong. Nor is it quite fair to attribute all refusals to selfishness or individual willfulness.

wRT professions with the shedding of blood---surgeons? tattooists? veterinarians? butchers? or soldiers? Some of these are suitable for men, perhaps even all.

WRT the English running away from their women - of course, about half the English are women....It's that bland assumption that English/Europeans/Etc are the men, that angers many women
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Postby rusmeister » May 30th, 2008, 1:04 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Mornche Geddick » May 30th, 2008, 6:13 pm

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Postby Stanley Anderson » May 30th, 2008, 6:36 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby cyranorox » May 30th, 2008, 9:25 pm

O rus, you took it too hard. my statements were not limited to direct contradiction of yours. I was pointing out the hard parts of staying home during 'work' hours, in contrast to an office, not the full situation of parenthood.

God created a heirarchical world, but the fall disturbed that, and men are not higher than women. [as i think you, rus, will not join Milton in saying "he for God alone, she for God in him"]In the public and social arena, it is not for the men collectively to give or withhold rights or access to the women collectively, nor define their sphere, function, or limits.

It does add to the discussion to reverse men/women in statements taken for granted, because it uncovers assumptions and asymetries that can then be examined. However, you are right tht the extreme feminist reduction to power relations is misleading. for me, that is not so much a question of the sexes, as an elaboration of the hermaneutic of suspicion, whereby the repressed/forgotten/denied is always and everywhere to be preferred to the stated/willed/expressed.
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Postby rusmeister » May 31st, 2008, 1:40 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby kbrowne » May 31st, 2008, 4:57 pm

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Postby Stanley Anderson » May 31st, 2008, 5:32 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby Mornche Geddick » June 1st, 2008, 4:52 pm

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Postby Ben2747 » June 1st, 2008, 10:21 pm

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Postby Ben2747 » June 1st, 2008, 10:21 pm

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Postby kbrowne » June 2nd, 2008, 11:42 am

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Postby rusmeister » June 2nd, 2008, 4:05 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Ben2747 » June 2nd, 2008, 4:40 pm

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Postby Stanley Anderson » June 2nd, 2008, 5:45 pm

However reluctant Lewis might have been to discuss and debate contraception, I think it is not true that "Lewis really did not see anything wrong with contraception". We see this disagreement with contraception in various places -- eg, his letters to Vanauken in A Severe Mercy. Also it is a prominent and general theme throughout THS. It is not just the conversation with Merlin -- there is a consistent implication throughout the book about the dangers of the willful act of making a marriage barren. We see this in various places such as the talk about "life" on Sulva (the Moon), and Ransom's discussions with Jane and even in the other books of the Space Trilogy. And I think the issue carries up in a very pertinent and important way into more encompassing issues connected with the sort of world the NICE wants to promote -- one of sterility and separation of mind from body. I don't think this running theme can be ignored as a sort of "only part of the story" that Lewis didn't agree with.

For many years long before my wife and I became Catholic, as big Lewis fans that we were, one of the uncomfortable things we both felt during that time was his seemingly strong stand against contraception. Even though he didn't much debate it publicly, his personal comments and implications in his works seemed to scream it out to us and made for a good degree of mental squirming on our part as regards that issue.

--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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