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Other Pendragons

Open the pod bay doors, Hnau!

Postby galion » 18 Jan 2008, 17:19

Hmmm...what do you suppose it would say about our musings if it turned out that Bill himself were the current Pendragon?

You mean he isn't??
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Postby Stanley Anderson » 18 Jan 2008, 17:55

repectabiggle wrote:Wow. I could never write/say those words.


Well, unless of course you were writing fiction -- you know, the sort of thing that does not happen?:-)

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…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby Stanley Anderson » 18 Jan 2008, 18:01

galion wrote:Hmmm...what do you suppose it would say about our musings if it turned out that Bill himself were the current Pendragon?

You mean he isn't??


Wow. I think Merlin must have put a reversal spell on your quote tags above. Unless it was a spell to change me into you and you into me. (hmmm...how would I know if that happened then? Could I -- or you, as it happens -- tell that I [you] was not my [your] previous self? curiouser and curiouser. [I bet this sort of musing falls into that category Pendragon Bill would say is "speculating on something which has not happened"])

--galion -- er, uh, Stanley I mean
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby galion » 18 Jan 2008, 18:46

Merlin? No, I think Morgan Le Fay. Sorry about that.
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Postby Bill » 18 Jan 2008, 22:16

galion wrote:Hmmm...what do you suppose it would say about our musings if it turned out that Bill himself were the current Pendragon?

You mean he isn't??


Damn, and I thought I'd put up a smokescreen.

:furious:

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Postby The Pfifltrigg » 05 Apr 2008, 09:54

Couldn't one be Pendragon without knowing it? It's doubtful, but there's always the "amnesia" plea.
False ideas may be refuted indeed by argument, but by true ideas alone are they expelled. — Apologia Pro Vita Sua: Cardinal Newman
Freedom lost and then regained bites with deeper fangs than freedom never in danger. — Cicero
You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them. — Ray Bradbury
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the Pendragon

Postby rofe408 » 17 Apr 2008, 02:00

I wondered if Camilla's child would be the new Pendragon. Ransom wouldn't put her life in jeopardy, "We in this house are all that is left of Logres. You carry its future in your body." If they are all that is left of Logres, then it would make sense that the future Pendragon would be a child of one of the couples at St Anne's. Rose
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Postby Jill-at-the-Well » 17 Apr 2008, 07:02

I like it!

And I bet the child that Jane and Mark would have had was supposed to be the next Pendragon.

Fanfiction sequel plot bunnies are beginning to run around in my head, about the Dennistons' child/children... uh oh.
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"I daren't come and drink," said Jill.
"Then you will die of thirst," said the Lion.
"Oh dear!" said Jill, coming another step nearer. "I suppose I must go and look for another stream then."
"There is no other stream," said the Lion.
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new Pendragon

Postby rofe408 » 19 Apr 2008, 02:43

Camille's pregnancy hadn't been mentioned before The Director said that. Out of proper etiquette I doubt that Ransom would have said anything before Denniston himself knew about it or had spoken of it to the Director. So if Jane and Mark's unborn child was to be the Pendragon, the replacement Pendragon would be a fetus of 5 months or less. I'd think less, since she didn't seem to bre showing yet.
Ransom also held out the hope that The Studdock's child could be born a little later but Merlin was pretty definite that the time had passed for its conception.
Something else I wondered about - when Ransom left Tellus at the end, how many of the group would remain at St. Annes as continuing participants of The New Logres. Who would eventually drift away. I'd miss Mr. & Mrs. Bultitude.
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pendragon - on second thought...

Postby rofe408 » 24 Apr 2008, 22:26

I don't think Lewis would accept that the intended Pendragon would be "assigned" to the Dennistons after the failure of the Studdock's. I think he'd call upon the "Permissive Will of Maledil." The idea that Maledil would bring good from the evil or omission of a deed. So Camilla's infant would indeed be a replacement Pendragon but not the intended "fruit." (to borrow Tinidril's term).
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please explain further

Postby Jill-at-the-Well » 25 Apr 2008, 02:14

I didn't quite catch what you were getting at with that last post.
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"I daren't come and drink," said Jill.
"Then you will die of thirst," said the Lion.
"Oh dear!" said Jill, coming another step nearer. "I suppose I must go and look for another stream then."
"There is no other stream," said the Lion.
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Postby rofe408 » 25 Apr 2008, 03:06

Merlin told Ransom that the time for the beggeting of the Studdock's child was past, & it would never to be born. The child would have put out the enemies of Logres for 1,000 years. That child could have been the newest Pendragon. I was happy with that conclusion for a couple days, but according to Lewis in his novels, God would respect a Jane and Mark's free will to be barren. I believe the term is "God's permissive will" that God would bring good despite the disobedience of the Studdock's to have the child. God would work out His will with the "B" team, Camilla's child. That might be no more help.
There is God's Will and then His permissive will. God's will was obeyed thru a Jewess girl who consented to conceive Jesus. God's Permissive will saved us despite Adam & Eve's disobedience. Clear as mud? I hope it's better.
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Postby Jill-at-the-Well » 25 Apr 2008, 03:11

Ah, I think I get it now. Thanks. I think I need to do a little research/reading on the theology of God's permissive will.

And part of me still really wants to write a story about the Dennistons' children...
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"I daren't come and drink," said Jill.
"Then you will die of thirst," said the Lion.
"Oh dear!" said Jill, coming another step nearer. "I suppose I must go and look for another stream then."
"There is no other stream," said the Lion.
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Postby rofe408 » 25 Apr 2008, 12:39

Let me (us) know how that goes. Who'd be the godparents? Would they stay at St Ann's with some of the others? What would be his (her) name - Merlinus? Ransom? Mal (Malacandra)? Have fun with it. I think www.EWTN.com has a place with apologetics or explanations of things like God's permissive will. (I believe that's the correct term.) It's been so long. If you can find a catechism, it might have the answer.
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Postby Stanley Anderson » 25 Apr 2008, 14:30

By the way, it's not clear that the next Pendragon, whoever it was, would even be aware of it for some time. After all, Ransom himself didn't become aware of his pending Pendragonary Post until quite late in his life.

As a side-track, I wonder if someone could be a Pope and a Pendragon at the same time?:-) Presumably one needs to be of British origin to be a Pendragon, since it is apparently related to the Logres "haunting" for England (as mentioned in the passage about the hauntings of various countries), so we'd have to hear "Habemus Papam" declared about an English bishop.

--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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