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Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: March 26th, 2010, 10:12 pm
by carryanation

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: March 27th, 2010, 6:40 am
by Matthew Whaley
Yes. Welcome, carryanation! :smile: Jesus offered Himself, so no one is to blame for His death. If you have a Bible, read Romans to start with.

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: March 30th, 2010, 1:32 am
by narnia56
Yes,Jesus offered his life to us and he died for as at the cross, If you have a Bible read Matthew and Romans to start with so you can understand more this is just a comment for your question, and or maybe you can start at the beggining fron Genesis-Revelation if you want. :)

PS...I love reading the Bible
What about you?

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: March 31st, 2010, 3:28 pm
by cyranorox
The Lewis quote is utterly traditional and consistent with the views of most of the ancient Church, but not most Americans and a few British 'low-church' [low as in not-liturgical] denominations. If you respond to that, you are on the right track and in line with the mind of Christianity. I'm not saying you should seek another church, but if the ideas in the quote seem new or revloutionary, remember that the Good News and the Revolution are really news and really revolutionary.

Involuntary sin, the participation in the system and the fraud and falsity of the world, business, politics, or whatever, and the upwelling of base thoughts and motives, is built into us, but not quite a guilt. We ask for forgiveness of sins, voluntary and involuntary, known and unknown, in word and deed and thought. Most of the social transgressions and crimes we cite as sins strike me as the most superficial sin; it's common for the Fathers to say that to see one's own sin is a great gift, but only for those who have developed great strength to bear it. But it's all a kind of disease, ugly enough, but to be bared for the sake of cure.

While you should read the Gospel, and the Epistles, you should also consult with or read some reliable expositors, ie, some of those who accept and understand the ideas expressed in the quote. The Gospel is a "book of riddles", said Chesterton; too often returning truth plentifully adulterated by the reader's preconceptions; you need a guide.

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: March 31st, 2010, 3:51 pm
by archenland_knight
Cyranorox:

As the planets fall from the heavens :wink: I find myself agreeing with most of what you are saying here.

But I would say that there may be more American Protestant churches, liturgical and non-liturgical alike, than you think which would completely agree with this idea. Not that it lets us off of coming to Christ (and I don't think anyone is suggesting that it does), but that it does mean we shouldn't beat ourselves up with guilt over our "bad material".

And I would say that the problem with saying you should read the Gospels and Epistles with "some reliable expositors" is that we will all disagree on what constitutes a "reliable expositor".

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: March 31st, 2010, 9:38 pm
by cyranorox
Well, yes; but to examine a particular idea, such as Lewis is presenting, it's a good bet to go to those who accept it; perhaps, also, some who are well and broadly educated, but hold other views.

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 1st, 2010, 10:51 pm
by carryanation
Thank you all for your responses. I'm in the process of reading the Bible right now, but I have a learning disorder. I'm in the middle of Numbers right now.

It's going to take awhile.

cyranorox:
Who is the ancient church exactly? Is there a Catholic/Protestant split here? Are there any specific authors or books you would recommend on this issue?

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 2nd, 2010, 4:24 pm
by JRosemary

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 2nd, 2010, 4:45 pm
by cyranorox
CArry: The Orthodox Church [Greek, Russian, Serbian etc] considers itself the current expression of the full ancient Church. We think of it like this; everyone was Orthodox [except side growths, heretics etc]; then the Roman Catholics split off over politics, the 'filioque', etc; then the Protestants split from them, ad infinitum. Not everyone agrees with this! But we do focus on the ideas and ways of the first millenium, in the writings of thinkers and saints commonly spoken of as 'the Fathers' , we use Greek as a living connection to the writers of the Bible [who were part of us], we think of the Bible as arising from within the community - St Paul didn't go found St Paul Missionary Church! he joined up- and the Liturgy as the center of our lives.

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 21st, 2010, 3:15 am
by Danny

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 21st, 2010, 3:18 pm
by Nerd42

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 22nd, 2010, 9:37 pm
by Leslie

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 25th, 2010, 1:57 am
by JRosemary

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 25th, 2010, 4:30 pm
by Matthew Whaley
"The Lord bless you and keep you: the Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn His face toward you and give you peace." :smile:

Re: Raw Material and Original Sin

PostPosted: April 26th, 2010, 7:56 pm
by Leslie
I didn't mean that Numbers should never be read. I meant that for someone reading the Bible for the first time, and trying to get a sense of the outline of the biblical narrative, it might be better to leave it till later. There is meaty stuff in there, for sure, but it's sandwiched among census returns, inventories, and detailed descriptions of offerings, which, frankly, can be dull reading.

Carryanation implied that he/she has trouble reading. I have some experience in designing reading materials for different levels of ability, and one thing that tends to derail and discourage slow readers is too much detail. It often helps to approach a text in layers, first getting a high-level outline of the subject matter, and then going back to pick up details.

Carryanation also seems to be approaching the scriptures from a Christian perspective, and it is common to begin Christian study with the person of Jesus. This in no way lessens the importance of the Hebrew scriptures -- it's just the starting point.