This forum was closed on October 1st, 2010. However, the archives are open to the public and filled with vast amounts of good reading and information for you to enjoy. If you wish to meet some Wardrobians, please visit the Into the Wardrobe Facebook group.

A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Comprising most of Lewis' writings.
Forum rules
Please keep all discussion on topic and in line with our code of conduct.

A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Steve » November 30th, 2004, 12:39 pm

User avatar
Steve
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Aug 1999
Location: Waxhaw, North Carolina, USA

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Steve » November 30th, 2004, 8:27 pm

The book in question
User avatar
Steve
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Aug 1999
Location: Waxhaw, North Carolina, USA

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » January 4th, 2005, 7:28 pm

Hello,
You have to keep in mind what Lewis is talking about here. He is talking about someone who says "I accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but not as God." He is making the point that you have to make a choice with Jesus because his very person drives you to.

He says He's God. (Now, I understand the author questions wheather he even said this, but he should go and reaserch the evidence for the Gospels. It is really overwhemly. Yes, you can close your eyes about any historical book and say "well, how do I really know that's what happened," if that's what you want to do, but that's another topic for another day.) And remember, the person in question here, accepts Jesus as a moral teacher, so he bases that believe on something...

You part from there, because it is an accepted historical fact. Jesus says He's God. Now, this can be either a true or a false statement. If He is God, he tells the truth; if He's not, he's lying. Right? So, if you believe that he is not God, then you have to come to the conclusion that he was lying when he said this, or that he believed it but it is not true, so he's a lunatic.

Yes, I know the author wants to put it another way and say he could've been just mistaken in his believe, but that's it. If I go around saying that I am Superman, am either lying if I know the truth, or a lunatic who really thinks he is Superman. I can be a great guy, and even go around saving people from crime, but that doesn't change the fact that I am not Superman. Same here, there are those who don't want to dare and say Jesus was a liar, yet don't believe Him. You have a problem then...

What they do is ignore or question when He says He is God, and accept other things they like about what he said (because remember that they accept him as a moral teacher, so they believe he said something).
Lewis will argue that if you look at the evidence, you will come to the conclusion that he was who he said he was: God.
Guest
 

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » January 4th, 2005, 7:33 pm

Guest
 

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » January 11th, 2005, 12:58 am

Guest
 

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » January 11th, 2005, 5:57 am

Guest
 

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » January 13th, 2005, 1:42 pm

My dear Wardrobians,

I'm sorry I couldn't respond sooner but I had other matters to attend. You know the work of Screwtape is never-ending (at least some people think so).

Now, stop this silliness about Screwtape being scared, you all know there is only one thing those of my kind are scared of...

Michael Jackson. ;)

Your affectionate colleague,
Screwtape
Guest
 

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » January 13th, 2005, 1:50 pm

Guest
 

Re: A brand new "Lord, Liar or Lunatic" thread

Postby Guest » February 8th, 2005, 6:32 pm

Screwtape Scabtree, here. Guess I was named after Screwtape.

Anyway, Lewisian and Catholic Apologist Peter Kreeft expands on Lewis's trilema to form a quadrilemma and quintilemma. These arguements, taken from his book can be found at this link:



Kreeft argues that the quintelemma covers all logical possibilities:

Data: The Bible claims Jesus claimed divinity.

Possibilities:

1) Lord

The Bible's claim is true, and Jesus's claims of divinity were true.

2) Liar

The Bible's claim is true, but Jesus' claims of divinity were lies.

3) Lunatic

The Bible's claims is true, but Jesus was insane.

4) Legend

The Bible's claim is false, Jesus either never existed or never claimed divinity.

5) Lama

The Bible's claim is true, but Jesus's claims to divinity were not literal claims to be identical with the one transcendent God, but to be identical with the immanent, pantheistic God, as everyone is in the pantheistic tradition.

If you're not familiar with Kreeft, if you like Lewis you'll probably like him. He has some interesting audio lectures on several of Lewis's books at his home page, here:

Guest
 


Return to Apologetics & Other Works

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered members and 8 guests

cron