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purgatory

Comprising most of Lewis' writings.
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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Monica » February 9th, 2006, 5:07 pm

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re: purgatory

Postby westsands410 » June 11th, 2006, 6:21 pm

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Re: re: purgatory

Postby chad » June 12th, 2006, 11:01 pm

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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Guinea-Pig » July 7th, 2006, 10:43 pm

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Re: re: purgatory

Postby westsands410 » July 10th, 2006, 12:16 pm

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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Guinea-Pig » July 10th, 2006, 9:15 pm

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
-C. S. Lewis
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re: purgatory

Postby Guinea-Pig » July 11th, 2006, 7:24 pm

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
-C. S. Lewis
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Re: re: purgatory

Postby westsands410 » July 12th, 2006, 5:22 pm

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re: purgatory

Postby westsands410 » July 12th, 2006, 6:05 pm

Guinea-Pig:

Have had a look at this article that you recommended: http: // members.aol.com /jasonte2 /purge. htm

First off, I'm not Catholic, so had - until I read the above - little idea of the Catholic concept of Purgatory. Just to be clear, I am certain that the buying and selling of indulgences is of no use when trying to 'buy your way' out of sin. It's just wishful thinking on the behalf of the congregation and the opportunity to make some money for the Church.

Second, I don't view purgatory or purgation as paying for sins in any way. As you correctly said previously, even if it were possible for us to pay for our sins (as a prison sentence, say), it would take aeons if not all of eternity. However, I do believe that purgatory is the process which God puts us through in order to remove the traces of sin from our being after death. It is the consequence of accepting Jesus's sacrifice for us on the cross, and I couldn't find anything in the above-mentioned article that ruled this type of purgatory out. You quoted Luke 23:43 (in your post on 7/7) - Jesus and the thief on the cross - in which Jesus says that the the thief would be with him in Paradise that day. I don't know how long the purging process will take, and I do not think that the verse mentioned above rules out the process of purgation, as He was not referring to an earthly 24-hour period. This I take from the Creed (variously termed 'Apostles Creed' or 'Nicene Creed') that my denomination uses each Sunday, in which we say that Jesus was "crucified, died and was buried, and three days later rose again into Heaven". He spent three days dead - in hell with the damned - and so could not have meant that the thief would be with Him the same day that He was crucified. The word 'day' can be used ambiguously: one can refer to times being 'in King Arthur's day', and one well-known Old Testament quote (that I can't find just now) states that a thousand years is as the blink of an eye for God, and that His days are not as ours.

Anyway, sorry for the long double post, I'll shut up now...

P.S. Have also looked at the article at carm.org. While I accept what the author has to say about Jesus's death on the cross acting as payment for our sins, nothing written there has persuaded me that the need for a 'scouring' type of purgatory is still necessary before the individual can encounter God...
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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Guinea-Pig » July 13th, 2006, 3:27 pm

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
-C. S. Lewis
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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Stanley Anderson » July 13th, 2006, 4:47 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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re: purgatory

Postby westsands410 » July 14th, 2006, 2:15 pm

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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Stanley Anderson » July 14th, 2006, 2:29 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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re: purgatory

Postby David » July 14th, 2006, 4:40 pm

In Walter Hooper's Collected Letters the last letter he quotes, written by Lewis to an American lady who admired him, saying something like, "If there are visiting hours in Purgatory, come and visit me." Lewis did seem to believe in some sort of intermediate state between human existence and heaven. What he believed about it is not clear.

I would suggest people read Dante's Purgatorio to get a better idea of the original medieval idea of Purgatory. Dorthy Sayers translation is the best in my opinion, but there are lots of other good ones. In Dante's scheme, people are not "tortured." Rather, they are given tasks that force them to work out of the vices they had as humans on earth.

For example, the self-willed wear masks so they cannot see and must depend on others to lead them around. They develop trust in this way. The selfish must give. The willful must serve others. Whatever their vice they had to learn the apposite virtue before they could go on to paradise.
The way, the weather, the terrain, the discipline, the leadership. --Sun Tzu
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Re: re: purgatory

Postby Karen » July 17th, 2006, 3:28 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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