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A ? for agnostics and non-Christians only

Comprising most of Lewis' writings.
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Postby kbrowne » May 6th, 2007, 8:56 am

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Postby rusmeister » May 6th, 2007, 10:05 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby kbrowne » May 6th, 2007, 2:07 pm

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Postby rusmeister » May 7th, 2007, 1:38 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Dinen » May 10th, 2007, 2:16 am

Hello Rusmeister,

I haven’t actually posted in apologetics before. However, I plan to in the future so perhaps I could help to answer your question anyway. I am an Atheist. I was initially attracted to Lewis’ works when I read The Chronicles of Narnia at a young age. I started reading Lewis’ other works because he was one of my favorite authors and I was curious about his other writings. Admittedly, a large part of what attracts me to his works is his style, especially his voice; however that does not mean that I disregard his message.

When I read Lewis’ works, I suppose you could say that I regard his message as ultimately “untrue” because I don’t believe in the existence of God. However, this does not render his works useless to me. His works have made me more open to the idea of religion and as a result I have a lot more respect for people who are Christians and of other religious persuasions. Just because I do not believe in God, does not mean I am not curious as to why other people do believe. Christianity is a large part of the lives of many of my friends and family so Christianity is important to me, despite the fact that I am an Atheist. There are also many secondary aspects to Lewis’ works which I do agree with such as love and happiness and morality. I find these concepts just as attractive as anyone; I simply disagree with the reasons why.

I can not speak for other non-Christians, but there are a couple of reasons why I would find debating Lewis’ message in this forum, or elsewhere, unappealing. Firstly, when reading the books I don’t go into them with the purpose of disproving them. If I did, I wouldn’t like them very much. I read them to gain information with as open of a mind as possible. Secondly, I don’t think that a debate of such type would go any where. There is no definite evidence that proves or disproves the existence of God. In the end it all boils down to belief and while it is, probably, the truest response, “Lewis is wrong because I believe it to be so” sounds like a pretty lame rebuttal to his works.

Hope this helps! :smile:
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Postby rusmeister » May 10th, 2007, 4:41 pm

Thanks, Dinen!
Yes, your answer is clear enough and appreciated!
(personally, I always think there's hope for folk with an attitude like yours, and hope is something we all need)
:smile:
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby kbrowne » May 11th, 2007, 7:50 am

rusmeister,

I think you and I will simply have to disagree about this.

I assure you that I am not trying to avoid challenges. I have argued with Christians elsewhere online but I am not sure anything is to be gained by doing that here. Quite simply, I do not think Lewis' arguments for the truth of Christianity to be worth much. I enjoy reading Lewis and there is a lot of good and fascinating stuff in his books. I think the time is better spent discussing that and talking about Lewis himself rather than going over a lot of bad arguments that have already been thoroughly answered.
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Postby rusmeister » May 11th, 2007, 8:48 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
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Postby jo » May 27th, 2007, 4:36 pm

Has anyone here read Orwells 'A Clergyman's Daughter'? There is a passage in that which answers your questions for me, Rusmeister, though I don't have a copy so I can't quote exactly. But the essential message is that - we do things because we do. We discuss Lewis because debate is interesting. We eat because food is good, and because we need it to stay alive. Survival is an instinct. Sure, none of this has any meaning if there is no God but I still have no desire to chuck myself out of a window. Living, life, is instinct, from human beings down to single celled creatures.
"I saw it begin,” said the Lord Digory. “I did not think I would live to see it die"

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Postby rusmeister » May 28th, 2007, 3:47 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Coyote Goodfellow » June 2nd, 2007, 4:42 am

"I don't care if it is wrong," said one of the moles. "I'd do it again."
"Hush, hush" said the other animals.
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Postby rusmeister » June 2nd, 2007, 10:49 am

I would just briefly respond by mentioning that Lewis points out warring instincts that contradict each other (can't remember where at the moment - Help me, Sven!!!) maybe it's in MC. If we can find the reference, I'll refer you to read it, because 1 sentence by Lewis is worth a dozen by me.

As to the rest...Pilate asked Christ, "What is truth?" Christ didn't answer. Do you have any idea as to why?
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Coyote Goodfellow » June 2nd, 2007, 6:23 pm

"I don't care if it is wrong," said one of the moles. "I'd do it again."
"Hush, hush" said the other animals.
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Postby rusmeister » June 4th, 2007, 2:11 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Stanley Anderson » June 4th, 2007, 1:11 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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