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Priestesses in the Church? ... from Jack's God in the Dock

Comprising most of Lewis' writings.
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Re: Ecce ancilla

Postby rusmeister » September 1st, 2007, 4:42 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
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Ecce ancilla

Postby Tuke » September 1st, 2007, 5:45 am

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Re: Ecce ancilla

Postby rusmeister » September 1st, 2007, 7:02 am

I was talking about rapproachment with the Anglican Church, not the Roman Catholic Church. And we're still miles away from the RCC, too.

By no fun,...You know what I meant!

Back to the first point, I meant specifically damning to the idea of women priestesses, which was not a reality in L's time - it was only being discussed.

As to the Orthodox Church - it's really important to understand what words like 'pray' and 'salvation' mean. If you accept an understanding that pray can mean not only "worship addressed to God" but "speaking to anyone on the other side of death", then yes, we pray to Mary and the saints. We ask them to pray for us (in that understanding) to God in the same way you would ask your friend Joe to pray for you - you are asking for Joe's 'intercession' in that sense. In Orthodoxy, everyone is alive in God - see what Christ said about "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob"; that He is the God of the living, not the dead. So Mary and the saints are really alive just as your friend Joe is.

If by save you mean take the action of saving our souls for all eternity, the answer is no. Mary is just a human. But she is blessed above all other humans - "All generations will call me blessed" and we believe that her intercessions can be particularly powerful (more so than even your avg. righteous man, and the prayers of a righteous man availeth much), and that God may allow her to take action to save us from various dangers in this life.
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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"Ecce ancilla" Luke I.38

Postby Tuke » September 1st, 2007, 8:13 am

Is Immaculate Conception a tenet?

I can't remember where Lewis, Tolkien, or TS Eliot stood on Mariolatry, but I know they deeply respected one another's liberty of conscience. That is mere Christianity, and the only explanation for the comities of the Inkling fellowship and the corroborative collaboration and reconciliation between Lewis & Eliot on their revision of the Anglican Psalter near the end of their lives.
"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Re: "Ecce ancilla" Luke I.38

Postby rusmeister » September 1st, 2007, 9:15 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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"Ecce ancilla" Luke I.38

Postby Tuke » September 1st, 2007, 11:36 am

Thank you so much for that catechism. I now feel I have an authority to turn to with my Maryology questions.

Do you have the unabridged text of "Priestesses in the Church?" Lewis discusses the Biblical ministry of Mary. He does so again in the next article after "Priestesses" in the God in the Dock book also titled "God in the Dock".
"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Re: "Ecce ancilla" Luke I.38

Postby rusmeister » September 1st, 2007, 3:33 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Re: "Ecce ancilla" Luke I.38

Postby Tuke » September 1st, 2007, 4:03 pm

Last edited by Tuke on September 2nd, 2007, 6:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Postby rusmeister » September 1st, 2007, 7:07 pm

Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for the misunderstanding.

Yes, I do have my own copy.

I'm no expert, and not the best authority to ask, but I feel I can be of some small use in helping Protestants understand that Orthodox (and to a degree Catholic) theology is not what most of them think/have been taught that it is.

Still, for correct and clear information, sites like OCA are the best.
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Ecce ancilla

Postby Tuke » September 3rd, 2007, 9:06 pm

None of us are experts, not even the hero of this website; however, I know no one who better exemplified ecumenical unity than when he published his Mere Christianity.
St. Paul said he was grateful everytime Jesus is proclaimed even by the false teachers and hypocrites.
I have recently come to realize that LDS Mormons know who Jesus was. We may differ on subtleties of theology concerning His divinity and Oneness with the Father & the Spirit, but there is no religion that can encompass God. Otherwise, giving Jesus the name above all names is meaningless. Cf. Philippians II.5-11

P.S. Checking out Philippians online I discovered a new website. Is anyone familiar with it? http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-te ... testament/ I think it may be just the thing for my greek Testament studies. Is there a better?

I hope we haven't digressed too much. The Church is the Bride and we are all handmaids compared to the Bridegroom.
Last edited by Tuke on September 4th, 2007, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Re: Ecce ancilla

Postby rusmeister » September 4th, 2007, 4:43 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
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Re: Ecce ancilla

Postby Tuke » September 4th, 2007, 1:29 pm

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Behold the handmaid

Postby Tuke » September 4th, 2007, 2:26 pm

Last edited by Tuke on September 5th, 2007, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Re: Behold the handmaid

Postby Stanley Anderson » September 4th, 2007, 4:02 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby kbrowne » September 5th, 2007, 9:07 am

I am not sure about Lewis' attitude to the Orthodox Church but I think it very unlikely that he would ever have become a Roman Catholic. He had serious doctrinal disagreements with the Catholic Church, mainly over the Marian doctrines and the authority of the Pope. That would surely not have changed even if he had lived to see women priests in the Church of England.

'Priestesses in the Church' is badly researched and poorly argued. It was written very quickly and, I suspect, without much thought. It springs from Lewis' strange fear of women and of women in power. I like to think that if he had lived he would have got over that and would have learned to accept women priests.
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