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what happened to the W.Witch?

what happened to the W.Witch?

Postby Shadowland Dweller » 16 Jun 2008, 15:40

I know this is going to seem silly, but I was watching LWW again the other day and I realized that I have NO idea how the Witch disappears, or why exactly. Aslan attacks, then when he talks to Peter, she is just gone..... :thinking: does anyone know why?
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Re: what happened to the W.Witch?

Postby Stanley Anderson » 16 Jun 2008, 16:14

Shadowland Dweller wrote:I know this is going to seem silly, but I was watching LWW again the other day and I realized that I have NO idea how the Witch disappears, or why exactly. Aslan attacks, then when he talks to Peter, she is just gone..... :thinking: does anyone know why?


I think she went to the place where "you can always get them back" from.

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Postby Sven » 16 Jun 2008, 19:08

Another discrepancy betwixt book and film. If they had included "Aslan's Burp"*, it would have been clear to viewers what happened to the White Witch.















*The existence of "Aslan's Burp" in any form of media is not certified or recommended for inclusion in homework or Internet discussion.
Rat! he found breath to whisper, shaking. Are you afraid?
Afraid? murmured the Rat, his eyes shining with unutterable love.
Afraid! Of Him? O, never, never! And yet -- and yet -- O, Mole, I am afraid!
Then the two animals, crouching to the earth, bowed their heads and did worship.
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Postby Shadowland Dweller » 16 Jun 2008, 20:10

sven, that is the only conclusion I could come to, but that was so .......(pardon the pun I guess) distasteful, I just thought maybe there was something I missed....ah well
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Postby A#minor » 17 Jun 2008, 01:57

The book says, :read:
"...the great beast [Aslan] flung himself upon the White Witch. Lucy saw her face... Then Lion and Witch had rolled over together but with the Witch underneath:..."
"...and when those who were still living saw that the Witch was dead they either gave themselves up or took flight."

So in neither book nor film is the actual killing seen or described, but is implied and understood to have happened.
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Postby Guest » 17 Jun 2008, 02:17

I understood the movie to imply that she had been killed, it was just annoying me that he was upon her then when he turned and spoke to Peter, she had vanished. I knew that would be too big a blooper to miss and not correct, but it just seemed weird that she was just.....gone, no bloody hand partially seen, no torn clothing, nothing to show she had even been there.
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Postby Pete » 17 Jun 2008, 14:03

Sven wrote:Another discrepancy betwixt book and film. If they had included "Aslan's Burp"*, it would have been clear to viewers what happened to the White Witch.


Not really a discrepancy - the movie hints at him having swallowed her and the book actually says it. :wink:
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Postby A#minor » 17 Jun 2008, 14:36

Pete wrote:Not really a discrepancy - the movie hints at him having swallowed her and the book actually says it. :wink:

:thinking: huh? Where does it say Aslan swallowed her? Can't find it.
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Postby john » 17 Jun 2008, 14:45

It's not very uncommon for the greek and roman gods to swallow their enemies (and their children... and their wives). They just don't usually do it in small bites. :)

You'd think, if Aslan truly had eaten her, there would have been no way for her to return as she did in the Prince Caspian movie. I really hated that part.
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Postby Stanley Anderson » 17 Jun 2008, 14:59

john wrote:You'd think, if Aslan truly had eaten her, there would have been no way for her to return as she did in the Prince Caspian movie. I really hated that part.


Then I'm guessing you're really not going to like it when she returns in The Silver Chair:-)

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…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby repectabiggle » 17 Jun 2008, 15:25

john wrote:It's not very uncommon for the greek and roman gods to swallow their enemies (and their children... and their wives). They just don't usually do it in small bites. :)


Of course, Aslan told Pole later on that he'd swallowed up whole kingdoms. I think he could probably make one bite out of one little witch. ;-)

Stanley, what are you on about? The White Witch only wishes (anachronistically, of course) she had the subtlety of the Lady of the Green Kirtle.

Also, whatever that hag may have said, I don't think you really can "get 'em back."
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Postby Pete » 18 Jun 2008, 07:45

A#minor wrote::thinking: huh? Where does it say Aslan swallowed her? Can't find it.


Ahh...:thinking: it would appear (after re-reading that sentence where Aslan and the White Witch met in the battle) it doesn't actually say Aslan swallowed the White Witch (as I had remembered). I was probably just remembering that line Aslan says to Jill "I have swallowed up girls, boys, women and men" :idea:
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Postby Stanley Anderson » 18 Jun 2008, 14:13

repectabiggle wrote:Stanley, what are you on about?


It's been an ongoing debate or at least a question since I first began reading the Narnia books 30-40 years ago and even before that, I'm sure (and not, as some might say, simply instigated by the BBC films that had the same actress play both parts -- they were doing that in recognition of the debate, or at least in parallel, but not as originators of the idea).

Also, whatever that hag may have said, I don't think you really can "get 'em back."


Here is more of what she said: "Oh, is she [dead]?...Who ever heard of a witch that died. You can always get them back".

But I suspect you are probably right -- or at least as right as Hell can manage, since in Lewis' view, souls in hell tend to merge together into an unrecognizable morass of corruption and anger and bitterness and horror with individual distinctions pretty much smeared over except when needed by Satan for purely "practical" purposes.

I'm thinking here of Perelandra where Ransom (though Screwtape suggests similar things), when asked by the Unman if he knew who he was, replied (not having the book with me) something like, "I know what you are -- which one hardly matters". And later when he sees "Weston" return, it is not even clear if it is the dregs of Weston's personality or some mocking imitation of him in an attempt to trap Ransom. In any case, it was probably as close to Weston as could be for the purposes of the Unman's goals. And that could be something of what the Green Lady is like.

But of course we don't know and can only speculate. It hardly matters to me certainly. Either works ok as far as I'm concerned.

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…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby repectabiggle » 18 Jun 2008, 14:26

Great post, Stanley. I didn't know there was any serious debate about the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle. I won't drag all that up, then, by saying what I think about it, since it's no doubt stuff that's been rehashed ad nauseum long before I came around.

Enjoyed the stuff relating the witches to Lewis's other works. Lewis had a consistent vision if nothing else, eh?
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Postby Pete » 19 Jun 2008, 00:19

Stanley Anderson wrote:It's been an ongoing debate or at least a question since I first began reading the Narnia books 30-40 years ago and even before that, I'm sure (and not, as some might say, simply instigated by the BBC films that had the same actress play both parts -- they were doing that in recognition of the debate, or at least in parallel, but not as originators of the idea).


Not just both parts remember - all three parts! :wink: The White Witch, the Hag and the Lady of the Green Kirtle. :coffee:
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