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what happened to the W.Witch?

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2008, 15:40
by Shadowland Dweller
I know this is going to seem silly, but I was watching LWW again the other day and I realized that I have NO idea how the Witch disappears, or why exactly. Aslan attacks, then when he talks to Peter, she is just gone..... :thinking: does anyone know why?

Re: what happened to the W.Witch?

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2008, 16:14
by Stanley Anderson
Shadowland Dweller wrote:I know this is going to seem silly, but I was watching LWW again the other day and I realized that I have NO idea how the Witch disappears, or why exactly. Aslan attacks, then when he talks to Peter, she is just gone..... :thinking: does anyone know why?


I think she went to the place where "you can always get them back" from.

--Stanley

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2008, 19:08
by Sven
Another discrepancy betwixt book and film. If they had included "Aslan's Burp"*, it would have been clear to viewers what happened to the White Witch.















*The existence of "Aslan's Burp" in any form of media is not certified or recommended for inclusion in homework or Internet discussion.

PostPosted: 16 Jun 2008, 20:10
by Shadowland Dweller
sven, that is the only conclusion I could come to, but that was so .......(pardon the pun I guess) distasteful, I just thought maybe there was something I missed....ah well

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 01:57
by A#minor
The book says, :read:
"...the great beast [Aslan] flung himself upon the White Witch. Lucy saw her face... Then Lion and Witch had rolled over together but with the Witch underneath:..."
"...and when those who were still living saw that the Witch was dead they either gave themselves up or took flight."

So in neither book nor film is the actual killing seen or described, but is implied and understood to have happened.

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 02:17
by Guest
I understood the movie to imply that she had been killed, it was just annoying me that he was upon her then when he turned and spoke to Peter, she had vanished. I knew that would be too big a blooper to miss and not correct, but it just seemed weird that she was just.....gone, no bloody hand partially seen, no torn clothing, nothing to show she had even been there.

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 14:03
by Pete
Sven wrote:Another discrepancy betwixt book and film. If they had included "Aslan's Burp"*, it would have been clear to viewers what happened to the White Witch.


Not really a discrepancy - the movie hints at him having swallowed her and the book actually says it. :wink:

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 14:36
by A#minor
Pete wrote:Not really a discrepancy - the movie hints at him having swallowed her and the book actually says it. :wink:

:thinking: huh? Where does it say Aslan swallowed her? Can't find it.

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 14:45
by john
It's not very uncommon for the greek and roman gods to swallow their enemies (and their children... and their wives). They just don't usually do it in small bites. :)

You'd think, if Aslan truly had eaten her, there would have been no way for her to return as she did in the Prince Caspian movie. I really hated that part.

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 14:59
by Stanley Anderson
john wrote:You'd think, if Aslan truly had eaten her, there would have been no way for her to return as she did in the Prince Caspian movie. I really hated that part.


Then I'm guessing you're really not going to like it when she returns in The Silver Chair:-)

--Stanley

PostPosted: 17 Jun 2008, 15:25
by repectabiggle
john wrote:It's not very uncommon for the greek and roman gods to swallow their enemies (and their children... and their wives). They just don't usually do it in small bites. :)


Of course, Aslan told Pole later on that he'd swallowed up whole kingdoms. I think he could probably make one bite out of one little witch. ;-)

Stanley, what are you on about? The White Witch only wishes (anachronistically, of course) she had the subtlety of the Lady of the Green Kirtle.

Also, whatever that hag may have said, I don't think you really can "get 'em back."

PostPosted: 18 Jun 2008, 07:45
by Pete
A#minor wrote::thinking: huh? Where does it say Aslan swallowed her? Can't find it.


Ahh...:thinking: it would appear (after re-reading that sentence where Aslan and the White Witch met in the battle) it doesn't actually say Aslan swallowed the White Witch (as I had remembered). I was probably just remembering that line Aslan says to Jill "I have swallowed up girls, boys, women and men" :idea:

PostPosted: 18 Jun 2008, 14:13
by Stanley Anderson
repectabiggle wrote:Stanley, what are you on about?


It's been an ongoing debate or at least a question since I first began reading the Narnia books 30-40 years ago and even before that, I'm sure (and not, as some might say, simply instigated by the BBC films that had the same actress play both parts -- they were doing that in recognition of the debate, or at least in parallel, but not as originators of the idea).

Also, whatever that hag may have said, I don't think you really can "get 'em back."


Here is more of what she said: "Oh, is she [dead]?...Who ever heard of a witch that died. You can always get them back".

But I suspect you are probably right -- or at least as right as Hell can manage, since in Lewis' view, souls in hell tend to merge together into an unrecognizable morass of corruption and anger and bitterness and horror with individual distinctions pretty much smeared over except when needed by Satan for purely "practical" purposes.

I'm thinking here of Perelandra where Ransom (though Screwtape suggests similar things), when asked by the Unman if he knew who he was, replied (not having the book with me) something like, "I know what you are -- which one hardly matters". And later when he sees "Weston" return, it is not even clear if it is the dregs of Weston's personality or some mocking imitation of him in an attempt to trap Ransom. In any case, it was probably as close to Weston as could be for the purposes of the Unman's goals. And that could be something of what the Green Lady is like.

But of course we don't know and can only speculate. It hardly matters to me certainly. Either works ok as far as I'm concerned.

--Stanley

PostPosted: 18 Jun 2008, 14:26
by repectabiggle
Great post, Stanley. I didn't know there was any serious debate about the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle. I won't drag all that up, then, by saying what I think about it, since it's no doubt stuff that's been rehashed ad nauseum long before I came around.

Enjoyed the stuff relating the witches to Lewis's other works. Lewis had a consistent vision if nothing else, eh?

PostPosted: 19 Jun 2008, 00:19
by Pete
Stanley Anderson wrote:It's been an ongoing debate or at least a question since I first began reading the Narnia books 30-40 years ago and even before that, I'm sure (and not, as some might say, simply instigated by the BBC films that had the same actress play both parts -- they were doing that in recognition of the debate, or at least in parallel, but not as originators of the idea).


Not just both parts remember - all three parts! :wink: The White Witch, the Hag and the Lady of the Green Kirtle. :coffee: