Is GOD involved in daily events?

[AllanS]

[Adam]

[Adam]

[hana]

[hana]

(I had to run off to watch a movie)

...anyhow, continuing what I was saying about the word repentance: I believe there are two verbs in the Hebrew text that are translated into (most) English Bibles as repent. One word can mean penitence for sin; the other can mean changing one's mind.
Since it's obvious from the text that Job had not sinned, and since nachav is the verb used, rather than shuv, I would say Job changed his mind in dust and ashes.

as for whether i would have told job as his friends did to repent in the other sense, it's quite possible; however, i hope he would have prayed for me too!

[warren_piece]

[AllanS]

[hana]

Alan,

I think Job must have been changing his mind with regard to his darkening of counsel by words without knowledge.

You wrote:

"In regard to the problem of pain, we must await the final outcome of all things before we can pronounce judgement on God."

I agree somewhat with the sentiment behind this statement; however the phrase "pronounce judgement on God" sends up warning signals in my mind. Based on God's "will you justify yourself in order to condemn me" and on Paul's "will the clay say to the potter...", I don't think we are or ever will be in a position to judge God. We will always be creation and he will always be creator. The creator needs no justification because he is justice himself.

I appreciate your illumination of the leviathin chapter as a description of God's defeat of Satan the chaos dragon. I also appreciate your willingness to debate with me. It forces me to think about questions I would not otherwise have realized existed.

Speaking of theodicy, perhaps we should discuss similarities and differences between the trials of Job and Odysseus :p

[Gryphon]

if God isnt involved with me on some days then i would like to know which ones hes gonna help me on. so would it be odd days or even? lol. seriously though, worship is a lifestyle. it's not an action. in everything you do, your supposed to worship him. worship is a connection with him. and so, he is with us everyday.

[AllanS]

"I think Job must have been changing his mind with regard to his darkening of counsel by words without knowledge."

I agree. He had insufficient knowledge to condemn God. It was right for Job to postpone his verdict.

" I don't think we are or ever will be in a position to judge God."

Well, that cuts both ways. How can we ever praise God if we cannot judge him to be worthy? And we must first judge which of the pantheon of possible gods is the one, true God.

If you're interested, there's some wonderful stuff at

http://www.bookofjob.org/

It's been good talking, Hana.

Cheers.