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Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby larry gilman » October 5th, 2005, 2:39 pm

Item of interest for evolution-debate watchers:

Roman Catholic Cardinal Schönborn, who in a July 2005 New York Times editorial dissed evolution and backed Intelligent Design creationism, has issued a statement in which he says:

"Without a doubt, Darwin pulled off quite a feat with his main work and it remains one of the very great works of intellectual history. I see no problem combining belief in the Creator with the theory of evolution, under one condition -- that the limits of a scientific theory are respected."

In neither instance does Schönborn speak for the Roman Catholic church officially---neither his editorial nor the text quoted above was specificially approved by the Vatican---so one mustn't put the wrong kind of weight on these statements, in any case . . . and I don't know what to make of his apparent personal vacillation, either: Schönborn admits only that there may have been "misunderstanding" about what he meant in his NYT editorial, not that he is shifting his position. But some "misunderstanding" was inevitable: compare "I see no problem combining belief in the Creator with the theory of evolution" (October) to “Evolution in the sense of common ancestry might be true, but evolution in the neo-Darwinian sense - an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection—is not” (July). Yet the former line clearly does refer to an “unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection,” because that is exactly what Darwin described in his “main work,” On the Origin of Species. Many heads are being scratched out there.

Schönborn’s July wording hints that he identifies the "theory of evolution" with the work that Darwin did 150 years ago, which would be a grossly inadequate notion. This particular great work of intellectual history, the theory of evolution, has expanded manyfold in rich evidential detail, depth of understanding, experimental fruitfulness, and theoretical sophistication since the Origin hit the streets in 1859.

The news item about Schönborn's latest can be read at

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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby Genie » October 5th, 2005, 3:59 pm

Here is another article worth reading in favor of intelligent design by Bishop Donald Wuerl from Pittsburgh:


I like to quote the conclusion of the article as followed:
'The Second Vatican Council in its pastoral constitution The Church in the Modern World addressed the rightful independence of earthly affairs: “…if methodological investigation within every branch of learning is carried out in a genuinely scientific manner and in accord with moral norms, it never truly conflicts with faith. For earthly matters and the concerns of faith derive from the same God. Indeed, whoever labors to penetrate the secrets of reality with a humble and steady mind, is, even unawares, being led by the hand of God, who holds all things in existence, and gives them their identity” (36).

As Pascal in his Pensées said many centuries ago: “The human heart has its reasons that reason cannot know.” When I hear a six year old express marvel at a starry sky, or see the wonder in the face of parents as they gaze at their new born child, or admire the resilience of enduring human love at every wedding anniversary celebration, I agree.

The intuition of human experience that there is intelligent design in the universe is so overwhelming that only ideology would deny it a hearing alongside any other theories about the origin of life.

The millennia long human intuition about the cosmos and human life explained over and over again by philosophers from just about every conceivable culture on this planet, and all done in the light of reason, should not be dismissed simply because the Darwinian theory is the politically correct version and the new secular dogma that demands acceptance.

When we examine with the light of reason the origins of the cosmos and human life then we must be prepared to respond to all the reasonable, rational, intellectually sustainable theories. Academia must never become arbitrarily exclusive of the conclusions of rational investigation.'
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Re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby Stanley Anderson » October 5th, 2005, 5:11 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby magpie » October 5th, 2005, 8:03 pm

"Love is the will to extend one's self in order to nurture one's own or another's spiritual growth."
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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby AllanS » October 5th, 2005, 8:26 pm

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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby Erekose » October 5th, 2005, 9:26 pm

Call yourself a dog???? I've seen better hair on a lavatory brush!!!
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Re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby Stanley Anderson » October 5th, 2005, 10:02 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby Genie » October 6th, 2005, 11:12 am

Totus tuus

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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby larry gilman » October 6th, 2005, 7:56 pm

Last edited by larry gilman on October 6th, 2005, 8:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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No mechanism?

Postby larry gilman » October 6th, 2005, 8:00 pm

Last edited by larry gilman on October 6th, 2005, 8:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby larry gilman » October 6th, 2005, 8:28 pm

Last edited by larry gilman on October 8th, 2005, 5:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby larry gilman » October 6th, 2005, 8:33 pm

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re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby sehoy » October 7th, 2005, 4:36 pm

cor meum vigilat
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Re: re: Anti-Evolution RC Cardinal Issues Clarification

Postby mjmann » October 7th, 2005, 10:13 pm

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On Human Intuitions

Postby larry gilman » October 8th, 2005, 3:17 pm

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