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- Agrument from Reason -

re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby jo » February 23rd, 2006, 3:06 pm

"I saw it begin,” said the Lord Digory. “I did not think I would live to see it die"

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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby John Anthony » February 23rd, 2006, 5:46 pm

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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby jo » February 23rd, 2006, 6:47 pm

"I saw it begin,” said the Lord Digory. “I did not think I would live to see it die"

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Re: re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby John Anthony » February 23rd, 2006, 9:05 pm

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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby jo » February 23rd, 2006, 9:32 pm

"I saw it begin,” said the Lord Digory. “I did not think I would live to see it die"

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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby AllanS » February 23rd, 2006, 10:20 pm

Hi Jo,

Taken as history, this is a story of mercy. War is nasty, but for them it was a fact of life. Every year. If it wasn't the Midianites, it was the Amorites. Or the Jebusites. Or the bloody Hittites. Everyone was against them and it simply never stopped. Consequently, everyone was traumatisied and exhausted and enraged. Every soldier (on all sides) wanted to kill every last one of his enemies so that he would never have to fight them again. Let some live and it'd all be on again in ten years time! He wanted to go home and get a decent night's sleep. He was sick of worrying that yet another raid would carry off his family or his cattle or destroy his crops. He wanted to plant his fields and live in peace. There was only one way to achieve this. His enemies had to be utterly crushed.

Moses saved those girls. Tho they didn't know it, that was the luckiest day of their lives.

Bringing it closer, Churchill wanted to crush Hitler and it was right to do so. He was God's agent, destroying a terrible evil. Many innocents were killed. And hopefully, mercy often stayed his hand.

But anyway, I doubt it _is_ history. Taken as theological story, all evil must be destroyed. But few evils are so evil that nothing good can be redeemed.

A certain father cut off his daughter's arm in cold blood. She screamed and begged for mercy, but the man sawed away with his pocket knife until the arm came free.

Was he a loving father?
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Re: re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby Stanley Anderson » February 23rd, 2006, 10:29 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby Pine_Tree » February 24th, 2006, 2:00 am

Mostly to jo:

I haven't forgotton or quit. I just ended up working most of last night, and will tonight. I added a short (relatively) note on your cheery Poll regarding Numbers 31:18, but I probably won't add anything here until the weekend.

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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby jo » February 24th, 2006, 8:51 am

"I saw it begin,” said the Lord Digory. “I did not think I would live to see it die"

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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby Karla » February 24th, 2006, 12:31 pm

I love reading the OT. I love preaching from it. People in those days were just learning to know God. There experience is raw and visceral. God was a part of their lives in a way we can't really understand. It wasn't an intellectual exercise. They saw God in the daily living of their lives. Was there a storm? --What did God mean by that? Got a boil? --What is God telling you? War with the Ammorites? Bloody slaughter? --What is God saying to us? God was in the smoky pillar, the burning bush, the bleating of the sacrifice. God was in the wind and the sand and the holy mountain.

But there is no "God of the Old Testament" and "God of the New Testament" as if there were 2 human kings, one evil and the other good. With the Incarnation, God's Word was focused in a person, and so in a way easier for us to understand. But it's also easier for us to intellectualize, when our knowing of God is through words.

I think that ultimately. there is only the transcendent God, the unknowable creator. Things happen in the world; they always have. A relationship with God means that we see those things in a certain way. God calls constantly to His creation, but we only see the echo of that call in the words of finite humanity. The relationship God had with the ancient Israelites is reflected in the texts of the OT. Those words were written by people in a time and a place where what they could know about God was constrained by their culture and assumption, just as ours is. What we see in the text is a recounting of an interpretation of God in the world. I believe the Bible is Holy Scripture. I see it as a way of communicating with the transcendent God, but through our own humanity, flawed and beautiful.

(sorry for the sermon --not exactly an 'argument from reason' :/ )
Grace dances. I would pipe; dance, all of you...

Hymn of Jesus from 'The Acts of John'


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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby Genie » February 24th, 2006, 12:37 pm

Karla, faith won't touch my heart if it's all about Argument from Reason. On my personal scale of 'sense' and 'sensibilty', the later always weighs more. Thanks for sharing with us your thought.
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re: - Agrument from Reason -

Postby AllanS » February 24th, 2006, 10:10 pm

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