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Heaven and Unborn Children

re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby phos » February 20th, 2006, 6:47 pm

Sehoy, did you even read my entire first post? I already said that I would never, ever, tell a woman who lost her baby that the child was not in Heaven. That's not my place. But apparently I'm elevating Scripture to too high of a position, as no one seems to really care what the Bible actually says about the issue, except Pete. I mean, it's only divine revelation. That's not that important I guess.

And Pete, God is loving, but His nature is also absolute. The Bible makes it clear that the unregenerate cannot be in God's presence. If the child has inherited a sin nature, meaning it is an inherent, fundamental part of his nature, then he is unregenerate, regardless of whether he has sinned or not. Through Adam's one sin, we all became sinners.

Honest to God, I really, really want someone to prove to me on the basis of Scripture that young children automatically go to Heaven. I want to be able to say I know that for sure. But I hold Scripture in too high of a light to simply disregard what it says because of my personal feelings. I hate the fact that people go to Hell at all, and I wish God's nature would allow unregenerate people into eternity with Him. But Scripture makes it clear that that is not the case, and I am left having to accept it. Scripture does not seem to make clear what happens to children when they die, good or bad, but I can't just assume one way or the other.
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

-C.S. Lewis

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Re: re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Karen » February 20th, 2006, 7:04 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby phos » February 20th, 2006, 7:16 pm

Karen, you could be on to something, true. And while if it were true by Scripture that until a certain age the sin of the child was laid on the parent, then I might be able to say that it's more likely that a child would be in Heaven at death. Do you know a verse that states this?

The incident of Jesus in the temple seems too speculative to come to any sort of definite conclusion.

By the way, I love that Borges quote.
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

-C.S. Lewis

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Re: re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Karen » February 20th, 2006, 7:39 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Pine_Tree » February 20th, 2006, 8:01 pm

Being real quick, and just from memory, in case I miss a word...

Mark 10:14 -- "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not. For of such is the Kingdom of God."

John 14:6 -- "...I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

This says no-one comes to the Father except through Jesus. It does not say that no-one comes unless they make an informed, adult, deliberate choice about repenting and seeking forgiveness and grace. That is clearly the way Jesus put it to adults, but not to children.

He's clearly claimed children as His own, here and elsewhere. Suggesting that they cannot be accepted through Christ because they never had an explicit opportunity to choose so is an example of layering man's requirements on top of God's.
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby phos » February 20th, 2006, 8:10 pm

When Christ said "suffer the little children" he was admonishing his disciples to be childlike in their faith.
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

-C.S. Lewis

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Re: re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Stanley Anderson » February 20th, 2006, 8:13 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Karen » February 20th, 2006, 8:15 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Pine_Tree » February 20th, 2006, 8:19 pm

Last edited by Pine_Tree on February 21st, 2006, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Tony » February 20th, 2006, 10:47 pm

"The Church is the natural home of the Human Spirit."
-Hilaire Belloc
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby phos » February 21st, 2006, 12:16 am

If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

-C.S. Lewis

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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Pete » February 21st, 2006, 12:24 am

Some further thoughts, Phos. Firstly, yes, I admit that there is no explicit evidence to suggest that an unborn baby would go to heaven, but there is even less evidence to suggest that an unborn child wouldn't go to heaven.

Two points to consider:

1. Christ broke the curse of death FULLY (eternal death - hell). If that doesn't mean that a unborn child who does would go to heaven, then it doesn't sound as fully and completely done as what the scriptures say it is.

2. Christ spoke of the faith of a child. Have you ever witnessed (first hand) the faith a baby - it's greater still than that of a child a few years older! And it's our faith in Christ that makes it possible for Him to save us. Considering out of all humans, babies have the greatest faith something wouldn't be right if an unborn child weren't to go to heaven.

Phos, have you had close contact with a baby? Maybe a younger sibling, or a niece or nephew or child of your own? If you have, you'll have witnessed first hand the faith of the baby.

But as has also been pointed out here, faith is a very important thing in this issue.
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re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby phos » February 21st, 2006, 1:29 am

If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

-C.S. Lewis

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Re: re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Tony » February 21st, 2006, 1:46 am

Last edited by Tony on February 21st, 2006, 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: re: Heaven and Unborn Children

Postby Karen » February 21st, 2006, 2:34 am

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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