Who's afraid of Islam?

[jo]

Hmm .. okay. This one is going to be controversial but I want to get opinions anyway.

I've been reading a few forums the last few months and i've talked to Muslims and to Christians. And I have seen a lot of dislike from Christians towards Muslims but, and here's the strange thing, I've not see any dislike from Muslims towards CHrisitans. Granted, I am probably not looking in the right place and I am not asking for a bristling thread full of links to Muslim hate sites tomorrow. I am just pointing out that a lot of moderate, rational and intelligent Christians seem to be genuinely prejudiced against Islam. And I asked a couple of friends who are relatively independent about these things -well no not really cos noone really is - and they said the same .. they saw hostility towards Islam specifically from people who are followers of Christ.

I am not trying to sound more politically correct than thou. I have no sympathy for extremism or terrorism. I just wonder why it is that Muslims have suddenly, inexplicably become the 'bad guy.' And I don't want a raft of smart arse answers pointing to horror pictures of 9/11 and saying ' this is why.' It's NOT that simple.

Seriously .. do you hate Islam? Do you fear it? Why?

[jo]

[Kolbitar]

[@last]

[jo]

[Kolbitar]

Hi jo, sorry about that. I will try to make it brief and clear :)

You and I know things by our senses, and our mind. We know the appearances of things--such as their color, shape, size, feel etc., by our senses (sight, touch, hearing, smell). We also know what those appearances belong to abstractly, by our minds--apples, dogs, trees, etc.

Given the existence of God, who created everything, He either causes these appearances directly in us (causes our sensations directly) and the existence of things known by our minds, to which appearances belong, are therefore unreal; or He causes things to exist (invisible natures that we know abstractly as "apples, dogs, trees, etc.") in which the qualities we perceive through our senses inhere.

If God causes them directly then they are not perceptions of actual things, they are just a flux of our own sensations which He causes according to His will.
=============

If you're with me so far I can try to finish my thought in a post with the same level of clarity (as low as that may be:-), of similar length, and which explains why this understanding rejects natural rights in favor of revealed religion--why there can be no seperation of church and state in a purely Islamic country with no external pressure to keep it in check.

[Kolbitar]

P.S. That doesn't mean I hate or fear Islamic people. It's their thought that counts--the implications of it anyway...

[AllanS]

Just read the Koran and feel the tone. Then read Luke or John.

God is very great, very very merciful. Do these five things and you'll live in a paradise forever waited on by doting, doe-eyed virgins. If you don't do these things (or insult him or his book or his Prophet or his people in any way) he'll torture you forever because you clearly deserve it.

That's the message, over and over.

[Genie]

Basically, I agree with @last. I don't know Muslim well as to 'hate' them. It's my own experience as a foreign person living in a western country that Fear mostly comes from miscommunication and misunderstanding. I tend not to see the world as 'they' vs 'us'. I believe that people, despite their difference of skin colors, believes and customes, are all God's children, and we all are from God. Love will eventually unite us. This is not a slogan and I am not a fool to think that it is easy and simple. It's the hardest thing in the world to love a stranger unconditionally. Still, I strive to act Love out. And 'hate' doesn't have any place it we want Love to prevail.

[tangent]

[Bill]

[Kolbitar]

[Pete]

[Pete]

Jo, I must admit my surprise to read that it is Christians who have been expressing such hate and fear of Muslims which you referred to. I have observed that and been concerned about that from the impressions the media have been circulating about the western world.

But as I mentioned in the previous post, I think perhaps the biggest thing that is the cause of the hatred and fear (both ways) is the media taking advantage of the hate and fear that there is, and consumers of the media begin to take it on board. As I pointed out, the media seem to be portraying western nations and their leaders particularly, as arrogant and full of hate towards Muslim nations. I recall noticing the general view of synicism the media seemed to generate about the possibility of the US going to war in Iraq in 2002-03. There was this general media tone of "Here they go again - about to attack another Muslim nation!", and I've also noticed a tendency in the media to exploit the differences within the Muslim nations rather than showing the similarities, thus leading more and more to a the whole "us vs them" atmosphere.

Hatred and fear of Muslims because they are Muslim is wrong...but the media aren't going to say that too loudly, are they? In stead, they're intent on exploiting the differences. Western nations hates and fear Muslim nations and Muslim nations hate the west. The typical news bulletin. :/

[jo]

Allan, I must admit that I was going to say what Bill said - that some brands of Christianity are not disimilar to what you say. Plus, I always thought that the doe eyed virgins thing was a myth and was not actually mentioned in the Koran. I could be wrong though. Certainly, however, the Christian God appears to have done things just as dreadful as anything you might find in the Koran.

Pete ... it's a chicken and egg thing I think.. do the media portray the state of affairs this way because it's like this, or is it like this because that's how they portray it? A bit of both i think. But nonetheless some actions speak for themselves, irrespective of how the media portrays them. We have NOT always treated the Muslim world fairly.