Into the Wardrobe

How do u explain vestigial structures such as the pelvis and femur of a whale to prove evolution. my friend thinks it totally does, i do not. can anyone help?

By itself, it doesn't prove evolution, but it's part of a large number of examples of structures in various species that don't have a purpose for the animal itself, but would have in other animals. A whale doesn't need the pelvic bones, but the animal the whale evolved from did, and the pelvic bones are "left over". It's known from present studies (i.e. on living organisms, such as experiments breeding fruit flies) that just because an organ is useless, it does not vanish right away. Its design code hangs around in the genome for many generations. The idea is that whale pelvic bones are just that sort of thing.

Evolution is usually demonstrated from the following information, which contains no vestigial pelvic bones.

1: It's going on right now. You can go out in the field, collect data (though it takes years) and see change occuring at the same rate necessary to explain complete transformation of species over the time scales of the geologic record.

2: The geological record contains "snapshots" of time - individual fossils, that given the ages of the rocks, are different from similar forms by the same kinds of amounts as are occurring today, given the time between them. The changes can be plotted on generally consistent "family trees" of organisms. It is the existence of such "family trees" that generated the idea of evolution in the first place.

3: Very few "snapshots" are truly out of order, i.e. show something that is not part of the progression of change. Those that are are shown to be fakes (like Piltdown Man), non-fossils, or examples of places where we didn't know the order.

4: The entire genome shows heirarchical structure indicating shared design with augmentation, which augmentation occurs in exactly the species that can be shown geologically to have emerged later than the primary ones that show the basic genetic patterns. All of the essential mechanisms of evolution (e.g. variation and mutation) can be explained within genetics.



I should point out that evolution by itself (meaning the points above) does not contradict the Bible except in the ages and some orders within the family trees. This means that the order at which species appear is different, and the time scales are different. Both of these facts come from geology, not evolution. Evolutionary theory does not say in which order species arise, it explains how one species can arise from another given the millions of years involved. That time scale also comes from geological and astronomical studies. No scientist, by saying that there is this time scale and order, can show that God did not cause all this to happen, despite the fact that some are atheists, but they can show that it did not happen exactly as it did in Genesis. I should also point out that it is modern, not ancient Christians who have trouble relating ideas from theology with those from philosophy (science). Church fathers like Augustine knew they were using outside information in addition to scripture to arrive at the truth and probably would have been much more willing to incorporate evolution and geologic time scales into their view of Genesis.

See - this is a problem that many people who do not believe that evolution is true come up with. Of course it will still be a finch after thousands of years.

Evolution from one species to another takes rather a lot more than thousands of years and yet these people seem to be saying that because they do not see it in their own minuscule lifetimes, it cannot be so.

Evolution is a theory based on extrapolating the most reasonable and scientifically logical conclusion from the available evidence. We have never seen one animal evolve into another before our eyes because we do not live for hundreds of thousands of years.

There is no arguing with these people.

Invent a time machine, come back to earth in millions of years and you will probably see some changes. Some creatures will undoubtedly be the same - the evidence points to some animals not having changed for millions of years - but I think you would also see some startling changes. Of course, this is supposition and you will never develop a time machine.

However, much as you might not like to hear it, it really is irrelevant what you believe.