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Any universalists here?

Postby John Anthony » 23 Oct 2006, 23:42

Sarah, maybe you could ask your teacher how he would translate kolasis aionios, and what if any difficulties translation of these words presents. I'd certainly be interested in what he says.
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Postby nomad » 23 Oct 2006, 23:44

me too
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Postby Sarah N. » 24 Oct 2006, 00:05

kolasis aionios


Can I get a larger context for these words. Often that is crucial. Also, if you had them in Greek characters too, I would appreciate it. I know that doesn't work well on boards, but if you had a link to a site with the passage in Greek characters, that would be helpful.
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Postby Karen » 24 Oct 2006, 00:29

Perhaps this will help.
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Postby John Anthony » 24 Oct 2006, 00:58

Sarah N. wrote:
kolasis aionios


Can I get a larger context for these words. Often that is crucial. Also, if you had them in Greek characters too, I would appreciate it. I know that doesn't work well on boards, but if you had a link to a site with the passage in Greek characters, that would be helpful.


Sarah, the context is Matthew 25:46. Here's a link to that passage in Greek characters:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=70;

I've just noticed that Karen's link also has the Greek characters. Her link translates the words in question as "everlasting punishment". What's been debated in this thread is whether such a translation fairly expresses the sense of the original Greek. And that is what it would be interesting to get your teacher's opinion on.
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Postby Karen » 24 Oct 2006, 01:22

John Anthony wrote:I've just noticed that Karen's link also has the Greek characters. Her link translates the words in question as "everlasting punishment".


It's the KJV, since it's linked to Strong's Concordance. I wasn't endorsing that particular translation, though - I just like the site for all the helpful Bible study tools. :smile: If you go to the top of the page, on the right there's a drop down box with many translations, including the Greek and the Latin Vulgate.
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Postby alecto » 24 Oct 2006, 11:58

kolasis is from kolazo, the verb meaning "to prune" or "to curtail". The metaphorical meaning is "to punish" or "to correct" as in "to keep someone in line" just like pruning makes trees do what you need them to do.
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Postby Josh » 24 Oct 2006, 13:39

Karen wrote:Perhaps this will help.


You've been holding out on us Karen. That's a great website.
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Postby Karen » 24 Oct 2006, 13:47

Josh wrote:You've been holding out on us Karen. That's a great website.


I've posted about it before, and just recently in fact. (See the last post in this thread.) You mean you don't read every single one of my posts with eager intensity? :wink:
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Postby John Anthony » 24 Oct 2006, 17:06

alecto wrote:kolasis is from kolazo, the verb meaning "to prune" or "to curtail". The metaphorical meaning is "to punish" or "to correct" as in "to keep someone in line" just like pruning makes trees do what you need them to do.


That's interesting. It would seem then that kolasis in Matthew 25:46 probably is better understood as meaning corrective disciplinng rather than as retributory punishment.
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Postby nomad » 24 Oct 2006, 17:58

This word study is very interesting. It does have a huge impact.

I'd like to raise another question. The sheep and the goats is a parable, so not meant to be taken verbatim. I mean, no one here seems to be suggesting that we are talking about actual sheeps and goats. But a more serious problem is that this parable sounds like we are saved by works. If you are going to take the "eternal punishment" literally, wouldn't you also have to that literally? That also makes me think that this parable is not talking about the salvation of the soul.

OK, now I'm going to go out on a really shaky limb. Could the sheep and the goats be refering to the seperation of our selfish nature from our Christ-like nature? Because most of us sometimes behave like sheep and sometimes like goats. I know that's a stretch. Any thoughts?[/list]
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Universalist?

Postby tampastranger » 25 Oct 2006, 05:38

To: JohnAnthony, nomad, Sarah N., Karen, Alecto, Josh and anyone else who wants to.
I am going to ask a dumb question. What is a universalist? You don't all have to answer but please do if you want to.

And Karen, you have helped me before this has nothing to do with anything but the editing of the information on the Forum, I first joined in 1999, but do not know how to get that information corrected on my postings now, I guess I am being vain but it is important to me. I think it shows new people how loved the Wardrobe has been because quite a few people have been posting for years. I had trouble with my computer several years ago, time after time and had to re-register. Do you have any advice for me, if not thanks anyway!
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Postby Karen » 25 Oct 2006, 11:38

A universalist is someone who believes that all people are eventually saved, and that no one spends eternity in hell. There are various verses used to support this, such as 1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. There are, of course, verses on both sides of the issue. :smile:

As for your Wardrobe status, you can either send a private message to John or post your question in the Support & Announcements forum.
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Postby nomad » 25 Oct 2006, 22:45

Also, the link David Jack posted a page back explains it pretty well.
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Postby lee_merrill » 27 Oct 2006, 01:43

John Anthony wrote:
alecto wrote:kolasis is from kolazo, the verb meaning "to prune" or "to curtail". The metaphorical meaning is "to punish" or "to correct" as in "to keep someone in line" just like pruning makes trees do what you need them to do.


That's interesting. It would seem then that kolasis in Matthew 25:46 probably is better understood as meaning corrective disciplinng rather than as retributory punishment.

It may be possible, but I don't think it's probable, for the word "aionios" almost certainly means "eternal" (contrasted here with "eternal life"), and correction would not be eternal.

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