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Any universalists here?

Postby John Anthony » 27 Oct 2006, 02:13

lee_merrill wrote:
John Anthony wrote:
alecto wrote:kolasis is from kolazo, the verb meaning "to prune" or "to curtail". The metaphorical meaning is "to punish" or "to correct" as in "to keep someone in line" just like pruning makes trees do what you need them to do.


That's interesting. It would seem then that kolasis in Matthew 25:46 probably is better understood as meaning corrective disciplinng rather than as retributory punishment.

It may be possible, but I don't think it's probable, for the word "aionios" almost certainly means "eternal" (contrasted here with "eternal life"), and correction would not be eternal.

Blessings,
Lee


On page 4 of this thread I suggest that aionios is better translated as "age-long" or "age-during" and provide links to a couple of sites where support for this suggestion can be found.
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Postby alecto » 29 Oct 2006, 04:16

John Anthony wrote:On page 4 of this thread I suggest that aionios is better translated as "age-long" or "age-during" and provide links to a couple of sites where support for this suggestion can be found.

Yeah. Literally aionios means "for the duration of the age". A Greek would probably normally interpret this as meaning "forever" in a practical sense, but if he were being "literal", would think that it meant "until the end of the age." I think they believed we were in the Fourth Age (ho tetartos aion) AKA the Iron Age. Christians didn't adopt the Four Ages structure, but there was the idea of Millennium. A possible literal interpretation that is not "eternal damnation" might therefore be "punishment for an age" after which there is possible redemption. The general impression I have is that most Christians think that the end of the Age is what is described in Revelation. I don't really have a solid idea on that, though.

But it seems we've got it to where a literal interpretation requires that the punishment not be for an infinite number of years.
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Postby nomad » 06 Nov 2006, 03:49

I have another question about this passage for all of you amazing Greek scholars. Do you know what the word used for 'nation' is? Does it have the same connotation? Because I'm thinking that the concept of 'nation' probably was quite different in Paul's time.
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Postby alecto » 06 Nov 2006, 04:59

"Nation" in the NT is usually ethnos (from which we get "ethnic"). This in turn is the Greek translation of Hebrew goi. They both were used with mixed connotations. These are the common words for "nation" meaning a distinct ethnic group with its own customs, possibly it's own language, etc. The words were used for the nation of Israel, but usually for foreign nations and with a negative connotation. Sometimes goiim had the sense of "heathens."
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Postby nomad » 07 Nov 2006, 16:14

Thanks alecto. So, "nation" is linked more with an ethnic group, which may or may not constitute a 'nation' in the political sense, if I understand correctly. I thought it would be something like that. Interesting about the connection to goiim as 'heathens'. I wonder if it carries that connotation in Matt. 25?
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Re: Any universalists here?

Postby timoconnor » 25 Jun 2009, 16:12

We are all destined to be fully and equally - happy and enriched… Those who remain stubborn to God will only spend a temporary period paying for their unforgiven sin in hell - after which all creatures are saved and become equally loved and equally loving. God will eventually save all of us from sin and suffering and share His complete happy experience of eternity with everyone...

God is fair... Overall, in each person's entire infinite history, we will each experience the same mount of happiness and unhappiness that God experiences in His entire infinite history. We each experience the same amount of unhappiness - whether through our compassion and self-sacrifice, or through our being disciplined because of our unforgiveness and stubbornness to trust ourselves to God.

Iyehuweh God (Yahuweh/Yahweh), our glorious Entertainer, is crazy but not mad, chaotic but not unstable. He makes us to sin which makes Him sad, so that He can demonstrate His love for us by suffering for us, in such a way that it makes us righteous - so that we then make Him even happier than before we sinned and cause Him no further sadness.

God reconciles all to Himself through Jesus Christ, Who makes peace through His shed blood and crucifixion (Col 1:20). Jesus is the Lamb of God Who takes away all the sins of all the world (Jn 1:29). The creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God (Rom 8:21).

Hell's punishment is not forever but until the end of the eons - eonian punishment. People don't sin enough during their mortal lives for God to choose endless punishment besides it would spoil the future of eternity to have a section continually reserved for endless torture...

People are made by God to rebel against His ideal will for them and then offered a choice - forgiveness of their rebellion, or, punishment for their sins until they have paid the last 'penny' (Mt 18:23-35, Lk 12:54-59)... After punishment, those who went through torture in hell come to realise they need faith on God to succeed in life and they are joined into God's kingdom so that they cease from sinning and are rewarded for their compliance...


There are two bible translations which consistently uphold the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation with God, and the future union of all beings to experience God as the all in each of us. For a free download of these bibles you can try this website: http://www.scripture4all.org/

An outline of the bible references which support Christian Universalism has been posted at this webpage: http://sadtobehappy.com/CUBibleRef.html
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Re: Any universalists here?

Postby Sven » 25 Jun 2009, 19:24

Timoconnor, don't make the exact same post in multiple threads. I've deleted the duplicate of the above post.
Rat! he found breath to whisper, shaking. Are you afraid?
Afraid? murmured the Rat, his eyes shining with unutterable love.
Afraid! Of Him? O, never, never! And yet -- and yet -- O, Mole, I am afraid!
Then the two animals, crouching to the earth, bowed their heads and did worship.
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Re: Any universalists here?

Postby wondawomen » 25 Jun 2009, 22:08

I spent many years pouring over books from many religions trying to answer these questions. My favorite books were those of CS Lewis because of the deep love of Christ that was clear. He was more open minded than most which allowed me to feel a confidence in God's plan for us. With more knowledge came more questions. Here's a quote from Goethe that you might enjoy." The greatest happiness for the thinking man is to have fathomed the fathomable, and to quietly revere the unfathomable."
We love, because He first loved us.1John4:19 NASB
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