The "I want to hear more about AiG" thread

[Shadowland Dweller]

Hey, Messenger, I started to write you a long email in reply to what you wrote,........I will get to it, in the meantime, will you use this thread as your soapbox? Your email intrigued me and I want to learn more about what you got to learn about in Creation school :)

[Messenger_of_Eden]

[Messenger_of_Eden]

Here are a few pics for ya

An Inca Burial Stone (commonly carved approximately 1000-500 years ago) depicting two DINOSAURS (Apparently the Incas never got the memo that dinosaurs had been gone for millions of years.)


Another one, this one depicts a dinosaur attacking a human.


Same image, but I have outlined the dino. I tried to do the human too, but my program has grown a little unstable in its old age, and it keeps crashing or not allowing me to save. When I succeed in outlining the Man I will put it up in the place of this one:


The entryway to Dragon Hall, which is a bookstore featuring Creationist books, curricula for homeschoolers, teachers, and churches, plus various fun trinkets from the Museum too:


The triceratops that greets you at the entry to the Museum.


A fresco featuring the tale of St. George and the Dragon--as if it were taken from a castle wall--VERY cool. I want one for my room
In all seriousness though, note that traditional dragons--as described worldwide in ancient--and not so ancient--tales, are not so dissimilar from what we today know as dinosaurs.



LAST one...a cool display of some paleontologists working on a fossil dig. I just like it lots.



Here is my confession: I failed to check the battery on my camera the night before our outing to the Museum and as FREAKING MURPHY would have it, my camera battery died. It started flashing from a full green indicator (which made me think it was okay) to flashing red empty the moment I set foot on museum soil.... so I did not get very many pictures, and the ones I did are pretty blurry and unspectacular because the shutter speed was really slow due to the low battery. Where did that cuss emoticon go?! We need a banging-your-head-against-a-wall emoticon.

But there is a small show for ya!!

[Shadowland Dweller]

Donde esta my friend! I will re-read your post when I have more brain cells working (been catching up on LOTS of chores) but I wanted to give you a quick note of encouragement. I had to laugh when I read how you are kinda scared because of the area you are moving into spiritually. You better stop putting yourself down Missy!! don't MAKE me come over there and beat that out of ya! I was just reading my new book by Brother Andrew and (it is a daily reading kind of book) and he wrote about how God throught history would use the ordinary man to be His prophets, the voice that called nations back to the heart of God. So there you go Miss-I-just-work-at-0-Max!!!

Don't worry about the giving a good presentation, just let your passion for God take over and you will immerse yourself so much that you won't even realized that you are talking about it! (that is SO how I am about the persecuted church!) Sure, a presentation is work, but when you know your subject matter, it's kind of fun. (if you love that kind of thing like I do) don't stress girl :)

In the meantime, practice here

[Sven]

Moved to General Christianity.

[Karen]

[Shadowland Dweller]

[AllanS]

Either it's a very big man or a very small dinosaur.

The Book of Enoch (found in the Ethiopian Orthodox Canon, which Jude quotes, Peter assumes and Luke alludes to) speaks of the giants who lived before Noah. These offspring of angels and women stood 300m tall. Perhaps these are being shown on these stones...

Ain't life grand?

[Shadowland Dweller]

I have watched the first two video's of The Great Debate that you loaned me...oh my gosh I have to say that the moderator is bugging me, what with his nodding in agreement to nearly everything the "old earth" proponents, keeps cutting off Ken Ham, demanding proof from him but not the other two guys etc....rather annoying I must say. And I had no idea that so much of the bible was up for debate among believers.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the rest of the series.

[jo]

[Messenger_of_Eden]

Some certainly MAY be--as people too eager to prove their claims have been known to forge their proof. I will concede that it is possible that some are perhaps frauds. But there is enough other evidence of ancient tribal peoples depicting dinosaurs VERY accurately to lend credibility to the general Ica stone story. The Anasazi for instance (an American Indian tribe, now fully extinct) had drawn images of plesiosaur-type creatures with anatomical details that we in the modern world did not discover until Very recently. (gotta go, will edit later)

[alecto]

The idea that ancients could not have known about dinosaurs (unless they walked with dinosaurs) comes from the same modern ethnocentrism that gave us Chariots of the Gods. Because Europe went through a dark age when there was little investigation of the natural world, many of us have become deluded into believing that many things (like engineering and fossil hunting) are new. Therefore, when some of us see feats of engineering like the pyramids, we require aliens. After all, if sophisticated engineering was invented in the last few centuries, the pyramids must have been engineered by someone else, hence, Chariots of the Gods. By the same reasoning, we jump to the conclusion that if ancients talked about giants or "dinosaurs" they must have seen the real thing walking the earth. But we know that the Greeks dug up bones (They wrote accounts) and that they stored the bones of "giants" from the golden age in their temples. We know that Native Americans talked about the monsters that could leave tracks in solid stone. Fossils are not new. If the Ica stones are not hoaxes, they still do not mean someone saw a dinosaur. All they needed was to have uncovered a skeleton.

[alecto]

While we're at this business of using the art of various cultures to prove the existence of stuff, why are we not accepting their illustrations of divine beings as accurate and throwing out our ideas of God also?

[jo]

So ultimately, the depictions of dinosaurs do not prove either a young earth or the fact that dinosaurs may have co-existed with men. Still, it would be a fairly accurate depiction of a tyrannosaurus to have come from people who had only seen fossilised bones, i have to admit. My thinking tends to be that they are hoaxes but obviously I can't know that for sure.

[wingedllama]

Finding dinosaur-like creatures in art does not prove that dinosaurs lived with people.

1-It could be a hoax.

2- Ancient people could have found fossils and not known what to make of them. For example, I remember learning that the ancient Greeks discovered elaphant skulls which to them looked like a giant skull with a huge eye in the middle of the face. The "eye" being where the trunk once was. Some people think this is where the idea of the cyclops was born.

3-I don't think it necessary to say that all myths find their source in the fossil world, as Ancient people, had imaginations just like we did. They populated their stories and tales and art with all kinds of beings real or not. I have no problem with them inventing monsters or strange gods from their heads. The chimera, for example, contains bits and pieces of animals they would see in the real world, but this creature is clearly imaginary and not fossil-inspired. And something like dryads...not fossil-inspired, just something they imagined.

Art such as this can tell us about the imaginations of ancient peoples, but cannot tell us anything about natural history.