by Adam » December 26th, 2006, 8:26 pm
::That does not seem like a very wise statement. A god who lacks the freedom to punish part of his creation for its rebellion? A Mankind that, in having the freedom to choose or reject such a god, essentially takes the place of that god as the sovereign decisionmakers in the universe? If God's justice lacks substantial possibility, then so does his mercy. He's not a merciful god; he's a powerless god that lacks sovereignty over his creation. He truly is then a god in our own image.
God's judgment and God's mercy are both activities of His immanence. The consequence of Sin under a Holy God is His forsaking us, but our God does not. Even His judgement is not punishment, but transformation, fires that refine, not fires that destroy. That is the judgment we all have to fear, that God's love will burn until everything good within us is uncovered by everything evil.
::I desire a God who will punish me for my sin more than I desire one who will not?
You desire a God who will punish you, rather than reform you.
::If we take religion to be the invention of man, then the invention has yielded far more non-judgmental gods (e.g., pagan and eastern gods) than it has those of the judgmental type (the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God, who we might agree is closest to the true God).
Pagan gods are decidely judgmental, conditional beings inflicting harm for taste or even whimsy. We can identify with such gods. The eastern gods are alike operators within a conditional world, where fairness, not justice, punishment and consequence, not transformation, are the law.
::I suppose my experience may be different, but I have never once sought to earn God's hatred with my sin. My sins (and the sins of others with whom I have experience) have come instead in the attempt to obtain some pleasure or joy for myself through an avenue other than that provided by God. If I had my choice in those moments of sin, I would certainly choose a God who would let me have my way; I would choose the non-judgmental God. In fact, in sinning I am momentarily forgetting the fact that my sins do have eternal consequences, that they put me at odds with my Creator. If I could see clearly in those moments the true nature and consequences of my acts, I would never commit the sin. If I could see clearly the joy and pleasure found in God, (far from choosing his wrath) I would never choose against his will. If our desires and our joys are not found in God, but are instead found in rebelling against him, then Christianity is all wrong.
I don't believe that we sin for it's own sake, we sin because we desire the eternal consequences. We desire for god to forsake us, to punish us with His absense.
The choice is not between judgment and mercy, but of absense or presence. God's judgment is His mercy, if it is transformative and not punitive.
I don't believe it is a Scriptural way of thinking to consider mercy an escape from judgment; Paul teaches, and Jesus is our example, of a world where judgment is the means of mercy, where we all die so that we can live. A god who would meet us with the consequences of our sin, rather than the remedy for it, is not frightening at all; such a god is typical, usual, understandable, has a thousand archetypes in everyday life among the lowest forms of man. But the God who heals is much more frightening than the God who tortures.
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Adam on December 26th, 2006, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
) But there is more of... I'm not exactly sure how to put this... more of the sort of fear you have when you are meeting someone you highly respect, and who you consequently want desperately to get on with well. Like, if you were going before a panel of judges for some competition or for your disertation, but there was one in particular who had gained your love and respect. You would want to impress all the judges, but from that one you would want approval more than the others and for reasons entirely unconnected to your grade or your future career. Simply because their opinion matters to you. So that if someone comes to God out of the first sort of fear - fear of death or torture - He must bring them around to this second sort of fear.
