Shekinah, the Holy Spirit and Feminine Imagery of the Divine

[Karen]

[Adam]

[JRosemary]

Thanks, Adam!

That was a detailed explanation of how Jesus can be associated with the Shekinah--especially when it comes to John's Gospel. I did not realize that the author of John relied on the Targum--the Aramaic paraphrase/commentary/midrash of Hebrew Scripture. I'm not excessively familiar with the various Targumim, so let me ask a few (probably ignorant) questions.

1. My first question is just to ask where John's Gospel refers to the vision of Isaiah.

2. Since you refer to Isaiah, I take it you're talking about the Targum Jonathan Ben Uzziel? Of the two main Targumim, that's the one with the Prophets. (The so-called Jerusalem or Palestinian Targumim, I understand, were written long after John's period.)

3. My understanding is that Jonathan was a student of Hillel--so this Targum must have been relatively new when the author of John was reading it. By the time of the Gospel of John, would that Targum have been authoritative? In other words, would it have been read in synagogue side by side with the Hebrew Haftarah? I thought that happened later. If it wasn't authoritative in John's day, I take it that he must have had a private copy for his own use. (Although he might have had a private copy in any case, of course.)

I'm not arguing your point about Jesus being associated with Shekinah, by the way. I think your explanation was quite convincing. I'm just looking for a little extra info

Thanks again!

~Rose

[John Anthony]

When I read Rose's original post in this thread, I thought "It's Chochmah (Sophia) who has been associated in Christianity with the Holy Spirit." Not so? Since a major ancient church in modern day Turkey is named after Sophia, she must have had some kind of importance for Christians.

[JRosemary]

[John Anthony]

[Adam]

Rose,

I haven't forgotten your questions; I promise I shall get to them soon.

Adam

[tampastranger]

Interesting question! I have never heard the Holy Spirit referred to as 'She'. I'm afraid I don't have enough knowledge to answer this question from a historical/linguistic point of view. But I'm not sure if the Holy Spirit is the same thing as Shekinah. In the New Testament it says:

(John 16, NIV)

5"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt[a] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. "

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that when Jesus talks about the 'Counselor' He is talking about the Holy Spirit? I admit I don't know/understand that much about it. I believe in the Trinity, so the Holy Spirit is also God, and He is present on earth - in all who accept Him. So in a way, the Holy Spirit is a lot like 'Divine Presence' (Shekinah), but still different in other ways.

About feminine/masculine: I don't think that God is male/female (after all, both men and women are made in His image) - except Jesus. But I think the reason God is called 'He' is because His relation to us is 'masculine' (CS Lewis). That's just one explanation though.

It's interesting that you said "Shekinah is also associated with the Temple, and wherever 10 or more are gathered in prayer and with those in need, and with prophecy, special moments in religious history, special celebrations, etc., etc. "
In the Bible the Holy Spirit is sometimes mentioned in relation to prophesy, etc..and Jesus said that whenever a few are gathered in His name, there He is (but I don't know how the Holy Spirit ties into this).

Sorry I'm rambling now I still have a lot to learn about the Holy Spirit - don't we all.

fea

fea:
I am posting because of your post, I just started reading this thread today, I seem to always like, and have much in common with your views.
You say:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that when Jesus talks about the 'Counselor' He is talking about the Holy Spirit? I admit I don't know/understand that much about it. I believe in the Trinity, so the Holy Spirit is also God, and He is present on earth - in all who accept Him. So in a way, the Holy Spirit is a lot like 'Divine Presence' (Shekinah), but still different in other ways.

About feminine/masculine: I don't think that God is male/female (after all, both men and women are made in His image) - except Jesus. But I think the reason God is called 'He' is because His relation to us is 'masculine' (CS Lewis). That's just one explanation though.

My Bible, KJV, uses Comforter, which I think I like better because in seems to include more attributes, such as caring for pain, and carrying a load, I am sure you understand my my meanings, but that is not too important. And the Holy Spirit is probably the most important, as it is stated in the Holy Bible that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin.

I guess I do have a problem with those who can accept the idea that God could be feminine, No let me correct that , I do not guess, I do have a problem with it, for those of us who believe that God created man in his own image, to me God created Adam, a man, as to His own image I believe that is referring to spirit and soul, then created Eve from a rib of Adam, but as to no gender when He sent His Son, He was a son, with the spirit of God with Him. God has always been Spirit, which is neither male or female. Yes we were created in His image but we also were created because Adam was alone. You know the rest of that story. There is a verse in the Bible I am absolutely certain, But as usual I can"t quote the number, I have read it several times, and almost as certain that the verses before it are talking of women and this verse says to "either release or drawn upon" the Spirit of man that is in you.

I am sorry, I know that I am older but I think this is very dangerous territory when we start to change the gender of God.

I am also like you, not real comfortable with talking about the Holy Spirit, because it is so important, and probably not easily understood. But here I go.....Several years' ago in Church we were talking about the Trinity, the minister wanted to know what his congregation thought it was, my beliefs, probably quite simple were these: "God could not send Himself to the earth, He had never been flesh, He had to make a new covenant with man that they could handle better that they had the covenant with Abraham, so (He sent of Himself) He created His Son with that Spirit in Him in the flesh to experience the human condition that God Himself could not. I believe the Holy Spirt is God also, is in God, one with God and also now with Jesus. " Now here is the part I find hard to explain, but I believe the Holy Spirit can and will touch the believer with His spirit that communes with our spirit (or maybe soul) or both. We know about Jesus' birth but the Bible says that He was with God from th beginning. That to me kind of says that the Holy Spirit is a combination of God and the Son with the Spirit, which is of and with them both.

Enough, as you can probably tell I don't know enough about it either, I just know it is.

[Adam]

[JRosemary]

[Adam]

[Cymru]