At what point does a human being become a human being?

[Carly]

[Carly]

[Esther]

[Guest]

Without regard to the politics of the debate, I have no idea when life begins. You'd have to come up with a definitive definition of "life" first. Are we talking purely physical or do we include a spiritual aspect. I would include a spiritual aspect in a definition of life. That being the case, I don't think science is equipped to answer the question of when life begins. On the other hand, the Bible doesn't state clearly when life begins either (despite the prooftexting of some well-meaning believers). Since I do not know the answer of when life begins, if I'm going to make a mistake, I'd chose to err on the side of human life.

With regard to the politics of the debate, both sides have been foolish. The anti-abortion rights camp has concentrated on changing laws rather than changing people's hearts. the pro-abortion rights camp has disregarded the concerns of people of faith.

- Dan -

[robsia]

[Kolbitar]

[Carly]

[jo]

[Carly]

[Guest]

[Carly]

[Kolbitar]

[Carly]

[Kolbitar]

Hi again.

::I want to think about your argument for a while. You seem to be using the concept of I, whether conscious or not, to be definitive of...humanhood (wants to avoid the connotations of the word "humanity" at this point). An interesting philosophical construct, and a big one. I may need to sleep on it...for a few nights...

I actually wanted to avoid delving too deeply into philosophy (though not for my sake), but I'll gladly indulge for a post or two :-)

I'm using the concept "I" to signify the enduring element of my being which undergoes change (I'm speaking of more than Kant's transcendental unity of consciousness, I'm speaking of substantial unity which every thing, animate or inanimate, has as it's principle of being -- in my case this also includes Kant's unity of consciousness, at least, in so far as it exists potentially--as it does when I sleep). That enduring element is known philosophically as my substance. I am a rational animal (I have intellectual and sense knowledge, and all that entails) -- that is my substance, my nature. Since the use of "I" designates my enduring nature, and since rights are integral to my enduring nature, then I have inalianable rights at the moment my nature comes into being...

Regarding the philosophical term "substance," the following quote, I think, puts it rather well:

"There cannot be any doubt…that the ordinary man makes a distinction between things and their modifications. We have only to examine what we are accustomed to say about the changing size of a tree or the changing colour of its leaves to see that this is the case... A substance is that of which we say primarily that it exists and which is not predicated of something else in the way in which we predicate pallor of John or redness of a rose, while an accident is that which exists only as a modification of a substance or a thing and which is predicated of a substance." --Copleston

Jesse

[postodave]