by Adam » April 11th, 2007, 1:07 am
::I am not convinced Mary was sinless either. I am simply suggesting that Mary's Immaculate Conception does have strong exegetical biblical arguements, And quoting Romans 5, does nothing to support or go against the doctrine. I am not looking for another tireless catholic and protestant debate. I simply asking my fellow prostenants to look at there biases, that have no real scriptural backing.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was proposed, based upon philosophical reasoning, in order to provide reasoned explanation for the Christ to have been born of a woman, and thus in Adam, and yet be outside of Adam, outside of sin, in fact a new Adam.
Most protestants do not trouble to provide Scriptural arguments against this doctrine. It is difficult to prove a negative. Most protestants do insist that the burden of proof lies with the Roman Catholic Church to provide evidence for it, because they do not acknowledge the authority of the Roman church to construct doctrine.
I personally find the doctrine to be adiaphora; it is speculation based on extension of human reason. It is possible that Christ could have been born to a sinful mother and yet himself be outside of sin. The particular mechanisms of these divine activities are not ours to understand, and are not necessary for faith.
::Why do we not practice using the sign of the cross? How come I very rarely see St. Mary's Lutheran church? I will see St. Paul's Lutheran Church everywhere. Is she not atleast worthy of this honour?
Churches ought to be named according to their tradition and the authority of it's ministry. In America, it seems we may pick and choose the new name of a church from a list, but much of the world traces their church to a particular minister in a particular tradition. Of course, it may be wise to remember that Scripture says we ought not to become distracted by following Paul or following Apollo, but that we all follow Christ. Nevertheless, strictly speaking we name churches after the ministry of its apostle or disciple or saint. Mary had no ministry.
::We say catholics practice to much sacrament and not enough word. Can we acknowledge that catholics now have more word then ever before.
Protestants do not believe that oral tradition is a viable source of authority. Catholics do. To the extent that Catholics have become more like Protestants in their focus on written tradition, Scripture, and their departure or lack of emphasis on oral tradition, they are poorer for it in my opinion.
Nonetheless, objectively speaking, from a Protestant's point of view, the Catholic position still compromises the authority of Scripture by accepting oral traditions. Again, I think the Catholic position on this matter is superior, but I'd like to stress that it is objective observation, and not some protestant bias, that informs the critique.
::And perhaps the sacramental protestant should look at there lack of sacrament. Luther suggested the Eucharist every day. Most Lutheran churches I go to practice it maybe one a month. The arguement I here most often against increasing it? "Oh we don't won't it to lose it's meaning." How weak. Well we better prayer less to, I think it's losing its meaning.
Ritual is meant to create a sense of timelessness, not a sense of comfort. It is up to each minister to determine how best to preserve the first while avoiding the other with their particular community. Americans are fond of our comfortable rituals; I am not surprised that many ministers decide to make the Sacrament a rare event to avoid our particular errors.
I believe that prayer should be a private practice, not a public practice, for exactly the same reason. Liturgical confessions are meant to create that sense of timelessness and to provide expression for the common faith and way of life, and petitions are meant to be the cries of the community, but all other public prayer is dangerous; it becomes priestly when the speaker is putting words into the mouths of congregants, hypocritical when the speaker uses the prayer not to speak to God but to reiterate to the congregation, and lazy when congregants don't examine what they are saying to God. There are very few people whom I would allow to speak to any friend on my behalf, least of all to God.
Adam
"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
