This forum was closed on October 1st, 2010. However, the archives are open to the public and filled with vast amounts of good reading and information for you to enjoy. If you wish to meet some Wardrobians, please visit the Into the Wardrobe Facebook group.

Do Catholics practice what their current doctrines teach?

Postby Adam » April 11th, 2007, 6:46 am

Hey Rose,

You know that I am not a conciliatory person, so I am not simply trying to avoid argument when I say that I believe we share the same understanding in this regard. In my mind, the qualifications I made to the statement cover the circumstances you mention.

I imagine that the Hebrew prayers and songs that you participate in at synagogue are part of an established confessed liturgy, that is, a set ritual. The prayers are thus an expression of the founding principles, or the guiding principles, of the community praying them. This is different than the relatively extemporaneous prayer that is a more common Christian practice, which I despise. And to be fair, Catholics are more liturgical than many protestants, so they are more often engaged in confessional prayer and less often in what I would save refer to as "public prayer." Especially with your example of using "I" in a public prayer, I think that the subject of your prayer should also be your only audience: if you cannot safely speak for everyone in attendance, then you should not be speaking, or they should not be attending.
"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

Postby JRosemary » April 11th, 2007, 11:35 am

User avatar
JRosemary
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey

Jesse Hove

Postby Jesse Hove » April 11th, 2007, 9:51 pm

Jesse Hove
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Apr 2007

Re: Jesse Hove

Postby Adam » April 11th, 2007, 10:08 pm

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

The Eucharist

Postby Jesse Hove » April 13th, 2007, 7:16 am

Adam,

I wish for the Eucharist to be the centre of every worship service not under the premise that more is better, but under the premise that it encompasses everything Christ is. I am tired of the lutheran as compared to roman catholic as compared to the modern evangelical arguement. I think the Eucharist is what I have stated, and what you have stated as well. The Eucharist is most definetely spiritualy relational as it is I believe magical. Not in the sense that is some kind of potion we take, our this kind of non sense, but in the sense that it is sacramental by definition: "something regarded as possessing a sacred character or mysterious significance." I am sorry if I came of harsh towards symbolism or remeberance, it is out of my concern towards it value and importance in the Church that I reacted. The time travel idea is a nice metaphor for what is desired in the Eucharist -It is the manifestation of the Kingdom of God. I yearn for the Eucharist to become more Ecumenical among all Christianity, because I think it is so vital to what Christianity is. I have a quote here from a good freind of mine, that explains just why exacly I think it is so terrifyling beautiful, important, and should be the centre of worship.


The Eucharist brings us heaven on earth. We commune with Christ. In fact our entire story of salvation ties past and future events together. Paul often uses metaphors of Christ's life, which is our past,then connects them with our life in the present, and proclaims their meaning for the future. How can our baptism make us buried with Christ if he was buried so long ago? Our faith unites us to Christ whereby we recieve his blessings, yet our faith requires things of us now in the present("We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"), and means something in the future. The Eucharist in a similar manner ties us with Christ and is the celebration of the Gospel - namely that Christ came to save sinful man, he is saving sinful man, and he will save sinful man. A manifestation is a good description of the eucharist - We return to the Upper room with Christ, who washes feet and tells us to love one another, we commune with each other and pledge to make known to the world, what is apparent to us in Christ (forgivness, newness of life, and the promise of heaven) and we celebrate with Angels and Archangels and the Saints, who we are united to in the Eucharist, as well as through our own bodies for in the Eucharist, we partake in what we already are,the body of Christ. It is a celebration of Christ and his arms reach in everydirection, including time. This is the Kingdom of God that Christ brought tomankind. This is the world in which C.S. Lewis begs us to move "further up and further in". The eucharist celebrates Salvation in all of its aspects, and it neednot be put in a box, but rather it needs to be released to give life to a world that desperately needs it. Eucharist isn't merely eating and drinking, (although itincludes this) it is adventure, love, hope, and faith put together in a story that has been told, is unfolding and is still hidden..., they cannot be summed up in the philosophical metaphysics,
nor dry biblical dogmatics. They are alive and fresh, as the Holy Spirit is too. Can we ever know if the Eucharist works objectively on one who has no faith, probably not, we may be able to speculate, which is healthy, but its not something that should be imposed on people. The Church never imposes, she preposes. She proposes that we all need to be loved by Christ, and acts as a means by which we can belong to this love. All sacramental understanding of the church must be in line with the gospel, and all dogmatics must as well.


-Jesse
Jesse Hove
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Apr 2007

Postby Leslie » April 13th, 2007, 5:24 pm

Wow, Jesse, that is a wonderful passage!
"What are you laughing at?"
"At myself. My little puny self," said Phillipa.
--Rumer Godden, In This House of Brede
User avatar
Leslie
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1814
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Jesse Hove

Postby Janet » April 13th, 2007, 6:36 pm

User avatar
Janet
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Apr 2006

Postby Jservic2 » April 21st, 2007, 1:54 am

Jservic2
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Jul 2006

Postby Adam » April 21st, 2007, 8:00 am

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

Re: The Eucharist

Postby Adam » April 21st, 2007, 8:17 am

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
Adam
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1077
Joined: Dec 2000

Re: Do Catholics practice what their current doctrines teach

Postby rusmeister » April 21st, 2007, 4:48 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Postby Lirenel » April 21st, 2007, 10:26 pm

To go back to the title of this thread, I have the same question. Half of my best friends are Catholic, and my dad was raised Catholic though i have basically been raised as an evangelical Protestant. Somehow, though, I got three different views of Catholicism from my dad and my friends:

1. Catholicism which is a joyful section of Christianity, where Christians worship God and place and emphasis on helping others. As well, tradition and liturgy are seen as a way to help bring you closer to God and are a beautiful expression of faith.
2. Catholicism where one goes to church on Sundays and makes up things to confess so they can hurry up and leave. There is little teaching of the reasons for confessing, it's just something you do.
3. Catholicism that places a heavy emphasis on guilt. Everyone is awful and there is nothing they can do about it, just place more guilt on your shoulders and hope that if you do enough good in your life God might give you a piece of hell that has a few less flames than Hitler's. Basically, it's as the vintage21.com Jesus video says, "I've brought you here today to tell you this. You're all sinners. There is no hope."

Obviously, only the first one seems to be in the true teachings of the Catholic Church. I've read Augustine, Aquinas, and other Church fathers and I don't understand where the later two ideas come from. How to Catholics teach these in their churches and homes when even their own doctrines say contrary? The early Church emphasized the freedom of Christians from guilt, and yet guilt seems so pervasive in the church from what I've learned from my friends and family.

I'm not pointing fingers or saying that Catholicism is bad. I just want to understand why the Church and the Church members seem to not even practice their own doctrine!
The Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life, of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1

Member of the 2456317 Club
User avatar
Lirenel
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Doriath

sacraments continued

Postby Jesse Hove » April 22nd, 2007, 11:21 pm

Jesse Hove
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Apr 2007

The Catholic

Postby Jesse Hove » April 22nd, 2007, 11:41 pm

Jesse Hove
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Apr 2007

Re: The Catholic

Postby Lirenel » April 23rd, 2007, 12:03 am

The Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life, of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalm 27:1

Member of the 2456317 Club
User avatar
Lirenel
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 372
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Doriath

PreviousNext

Return to Religion, Science, and Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered members and 20 guests

cron