This forum was closed on October 1st, 2010. However, the archives are open to the public and filled with vast amounts of good reading and information for you to enjoy. If you wish to meet some Wardrobians, please visit the Into the Wardrobe Facebook group.

Gender-free expression curiosity

Gender-free expression curiosity

Postby Stanley Anderson » June 13th, 2007, 8:38 pm

Traditionally, "man/men" has meant both male humans specifically and male and female humans collectively. This seemingly sexist or patriarchal tendency is the impetus for attempting gender-free writing and expression by using such things as "he/she" or third person plural pronouns in order to avoid the ambiguity and presumed male-centered use of "man" for humans in general.

A comment on the Gay marriage thread prompted me to wonder about the following: Since they often feel the object of prejudice and bias, one might expect the homosexual community to also be particularly sensitive to this sort of "subconsciously male-oriented" expression of language (not sure, of course, but it seems like it would be likely to me). And yet we observe nearly the identical form of expression in the term "gay". For it apparently means specifically "male homosexual", as in phrases like "gay and lesbian studies" or GLAAD ("Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation"), etc.

But it is also used as an alternate generic term for homosexual whether male or female. And I think that the term and its usage in both ways is self-imposed and not imposed from an outside agency (though I am not at all sure about that -- anyone know?)

Curious. Perhaps there is something more to the patriarchal tendency than mere sexism or prejudice?

Not meant to incite, but just tossing the idea out for possible discussion,
--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
User avatar
Stanley Anderson
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3251
Joined: Aug 1996
Location: Southern California

Postby robsia » June 13th, 2007, 8:42 pm

Hmm - interesting point. I can't speak for them but I have always used the term gay to mean male or female homosexual.

Like actresses don't like bing called actresses these days - they prefer actors. Maybe lesbians prefer being called gay. Or refer to themselves as gay. Or maybe not. I don't know.
User avatar
robsia
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3732
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Incognito no longer

Postby JRosemary » June 13th, 2007, 9:34 pm

User avatar
JRosemary
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey

Postby Stanley Anderson » June 13th, 2007, 9:57 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
User avatar
Stanley Anderson
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3251
Joined: Aug 1996
Location: Southern California

Postby JRosemary » June 13th, 2007, 10:13 pm

User avatar
JRosemary
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey

Postby JRosemary » June 13th, 2007, 10:22 pm

User avatar
JRosemary
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey

Postby robsia » June 13th, 2007, 10:24 pm

User avatar
robsia
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3732
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Incognito no longer

Postby john » June 13th, 2007, 10:29 pm

john
Chief Wardrobian
User avatar
john
Chief Wardrobian
 
Posts: 6495
Joined: Jul 1996
Location: near seattle

Postby JRosemary » June 13th, 2007, 10:39 pm

User avatar
JRosemary
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey

Postby robsia » June 14th, 2007, 8:39 am

User avatar
robsia
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3732
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Incognito no longer

Postby moordarjeeling » June 17th, 2007, 12:34 am

moordarjeeling
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Apr 2007

Postby rusmeister » June 17th, 2007, 8:44 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Postby Amy » June 25th, 2007, 11:28 am

Amy
****
Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip. ~Will Rogers
User avatar
Amy
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 492
Joined: Apr 1999
Location: NY, USA

Postby Stanley Anderson » June 25th, 2007, 2:21 pm

So the conclusion that seems to be indicated by the various comments here is that perhaps the sizeable effort of the last few decades to get people to write in a gender-neutral manner is misplaced and that it is not such a big deal after all to use "he" as a generic pronoun or to talk about mankind as a generic term for the human race, and that Star Trek (since it came up in the discussion:-) may as well have stuck with "...where no man has gone before..." instead of changing it to "...where no one has gone before...".

After all, if the gay (or gay and lebian?) community has no problem with the supposed gender biased nature of the "male" term becoming the generic for male and female, and one would think they of all groups would be more aware and sensitive to such things, then it must ok.

What do you think, guys. Is it every man for himself when writing for public consumption, or should he try to temper his writing with references to "he or she", or "one", or the often grammatically questionable "they", or alternating with "she"? Or is it Man's lot in life to forever ponder whether he should stick with the traditions of his culture or buck Father Time and break with established practices?

--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
User avatar
Stanley Anderson
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3251
Joined: Aug 1996
Location: Southern California

Postby Karen » June 25th, 2007, 3:13 pm

It doesn't bother me at all. But then, I'm one of those old-fashioned people who cringes at 'their', as in "Every librarian should have their own opinion." I don't feel oppressed by the patriarchy when I read "Every librarian should have his own opinion." :wink:
I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
User avatar
Karen
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 3733
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Next

Return to Religion, Science, and Philosophy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered members and 12 guests

cron