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Pope: Other Christians not true churches

Pope: Other Christians not true churches

Postby girlfreddy » July 12th, 2007, 11:51 am

So I guess that many of you have heard or read about this. is an article if you haven't. Anyway, I was on another forum and someone suggested that they "think the different church elders just need to have a wrestling match to settle this one and for all. A steel cage (metal chairs allowed )... where the losers admit they are fakes." And is what such a thing might look like. :toothy-grin:
How would telling people to be nice to one another get a man crucified? What government would execute Mister Rogers or Captain Kangaroo?
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Postby JRosemary » July 12th, 2007, 1:03 pm

Hehe--great Monty Python link there :tongue:

I read this article with interest. My biggest concern was if the Roman Catholic Church meant to bring back some very objectionable language about Jews that was in the old Latin Mass--but apparently that's not the case. And Pope Benedict has been largely postiive where the relationship between Catholics and Jews is concerned even while acknowledging our differences. I have no reason to suppose that he'll back track on the many advances that Pope John Paul II initiated between the two faiths.

I can understand why Protestants and Orthodox Christians would not be thrilled with Pope Benedict's comments--although, as the article points out, it's nothing new under the sun. As I understand the Catholic Church's position, Pope Benedict is not saying that anyone outside the Church is damned or some such. The Church tends toward a complicated inclusivist-view when it comes to the question of salvation. The Church, in its own view, may hold the keys to salvation, but Christ can work through people and 'save' them even if they're not Catholics.

That, of course, may not be a satisfactory position as far as Protestants and Orthodox Christians are concerned, and I can certainly understand their objections. But it's probably better that everyone knows where they stand as they engage in dialogue.

At any event, some Catholics think that Vatican II threw the baby out with the bathwater. (Some of the older members of my family, at least, feel that way!) There will always be a tension, I suspect, between the traditionalists and the more modern worshippers--and the Church will always be walking a fine line between its past and its future.
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Postby Karen » July 12th, 2007, 1:15 pm

I agree. I've frankly been surprised at how much press this has generated - surely this has, in recent years, been the known position of the Catholic church?
I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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Postby john » July 12th, 2007, 2:44 pm

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Postby girlfreddy » July 12th, 2007, 3:44 pm

How would telling people to be nice to one another get a man crucified? What government would execute Mister Rogers or Captain Kangaroo?
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Postby john » July 12th, 2007, 4:15 pm

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Postby girlfreddy » July 12th, 2007, 4:40 pm

How would telling people to be nice to one another get a man crucified? What government would execute Mister Rogers or Captain Kangaroo?
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Postby john » July 12th, 2007, 4:49 pm

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Postby girlfreddy » July 12th, 2007, 5:13 pm

How would telling people to be nice to one another get a man crucified? What government would execute Mister Rogers or Captain Kangaroo?
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Postby Adam » July 12th, 2007, 5:42 pm

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
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Getting something straight

Postby Friend » July 12th, 2007, 8:43 pm

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Willing to discuss

Postby Friend » July 12th, 2007, 8:53 pm

If I recall, the Catholic church's stand hasn't changed...it's just not been discussed in awhile. They've always believed that it was their church Jesus set up, and they are the ones with apostolic succession with Christ's authority.

Well, I'm glad to know that your perspective is broadening. It's been said that the majority of those who want to share their religious views with you don't want you're religious views shared with them. :)[/quote]

Of course I am catholic, but I am willing to have an open dialogue and understand others. You said you are an agnostic. I was wondering what do you think about the different christian churches.

The truth is that I have been raised being explained that the catholic church is the original church, that it was set up by Jesus. I did loose my believe in the Church for many years (not in Christ) and could have been open to believe in other churches, when I reconected with the Catholic church I had many doubts about the right church and my own investigation took me to the certainty that if I was a Christian I had to be a Catholic, just by studying the begining of every protestant, evangelic church brought me to that certainty. They have all been raised by someone, some persone, some with good intentions but many others out of personal sin that took them to want something of their own.

I raise this subject because I thoght it would be interesting to know your opinion in the matter.... If you are an agnostic, as the definition says, it means you dont believe in the posibility of getting to know God (otherwise you would be an atheist). If I had prove for you, just suppose that....If I had prove for you that Christ is God....what church do you think you would join?
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Postby AllanS » July 12th, 2007, 9:43 pm

A certain cell splits in two. Which of the two daughter cells is the original cell?
“And turn their grief into song?" he replied. "That would be a gracious act and a good beginning."

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Postby Stanley Anderson » July 12th, 2007, 9:58 pm

I suddenly have this image in my head that seems to provide, for me at least, a kind of "explanation" of how the Catholic Church "works" in relation to all the other Christian churches out there (Warning: in its gung-ho Catholic enthusiasm, it will be possibly offensive to some -- sorry, my imagery and my opinion here, disagree if you like).

The image is of an old-fashioned train with a large powerful engine and the traditional looking snowblade in front to clear away whatever may be blocking the tracks up ahead. Connected to the engine is the fuel car (not sure of the correct terminology here -- I'm sure Erekose can correct me:-) filled with the coal that is used to run the engine. And the train has many cars attached behind filled with passengers.

Most of those passengers are glad to be on the train, knowing that it is what will get them to their destination, though some have erected engine "facades" onto the front of their car so that they can imagine that their car is the engine. Back behind the train are smaller trains with their own engines, though these trains have only very small or non-existent snowblades and fuel cars.

On the other hand, the fuel car on the lead train is so filled to overflowing that excess coal is continually falling off to the side so that the trains further back can stop and pick up the excess lumps to use as fuel for their engines when they get low (it is mere irony that some of their blades actually end up driving some of that potential fuel away from their engines making it harder to gather in the long run).

In addition, there are a whole slew of those "hand cars" (again, not sure what they are called -- the ones you see in movies where a person or two pumps up and down on the rocking crossbar handle?) trailing behind plugging away as fast as they can to get to the final destination.

Many of them will probably make it there, though they may have a mistaken impression that they are making it on their own "interpretive" steam and strength, not realizing what has been cleared away for them or fueled them so that they could travel relatively unhindered down the tracks, nor even that the basic design of their vehicles were rendered as variations from the lead train.

They all, including the lead train, recognize and appreciate Who first laid down the track for the journey to be made, and they all have the same destination. But many do not realize that that the same track-builder also directed the construction of that lead train to allow the track to be used efficiently. Some even consider that lead train to be of inferior or even dangerous design and construction and they intentionally refuse to board it, though most probably only got on board the particular train they happened to be next to when they found the tracks in the first place (and indeed, they may not even be aware that there IS a lead engine that has all the original safety equipment and power to finish the journey with confidence.)

Well, there it is. I'll leave it to you to figure out what corresponds to what (it seems pretty obvious to me, whether one agrees with the correlation or not, but if it is too opaque, I'll be glad to "translate":-) Again, it is only a kind of spur-of-the-moment image that popped into my head, so I hope it has some kind of explanatory benefit without being too offensive or obscure.

--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: Getting something straight

Postby Guest » July 13th, 2007, 7:23 pm

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