Into the Wardrobe

Yeah, that is worth reading. I've been charismatic for thirty years, but have only learned of the existence of charismatic Catholics, Methodists and Presbyterians over the course of the last four years. It has been an irenic revelation for me.

Has anyone read CSL's "Transposition" sermon on glossolalia, speaking with tongues? Lewis, though not claiming to possess the gift himself, accepts its scriptural existence and argues persuasively for its validity. "Transposition" can be found in his book The Weight of Glory. I was especially pleased to discover this sermon, preached on Whitsunday or Pentecost, because I've been intrigued by the thought that Tolkien's elvish linguistics could have been influenced by a charismatic experience. The Tolkiens were pious Catholics whose son, Michael, is a priest.

The opposite of love is not hate it's insouciance. Either that or no other Wardrobians have read Transposition.

I am unabashedly a pentecostal, in the sense that I believe the gifts are still valid today. I have never liked the term "charismatic" as I believe emotionalism plays far too prominent a role in modern Christianity.

I have read the "Transposition" essay numerous times.

Rev David Wilkerson, a charismatic pastor in New York City, preached a message in the '70's (or '80's) called The Vision, where he predicted the gifts would extend outside the borders of evangelical churches, and reach the liturgical churches, primarily Catholic Churches.

Hi Tuke,
"Transposition" is one of my favourite pieces by Lewis, and I have read it many times. It is something that needs to be called to mind frequently these days - every time the gutter press (or even real scientists) claim to have found a region of the brain, or a gene for religion/faith.

I have also been a "charismatic Catholic" for nearly 28 years now, and "charismatic" forms of worship were by no means new to the R.C. church when I got involved. As a movement within the R.C. Church it is often referred to as "Charismatic Renewal", and proponents such as Cardinal Léon Joseph Suenens of Belgium saw it as a promising vehicle for ecumenism, witness the Mailines Documents of 1974 and 1978.


As for Tolkien's inspiration for his Middle Earth languages, I think it pretty certain that his sources were more earthly, specifically Welsh and Finnish; roughly Welsh for the grammar and Finnish for the orthography. Tolkien was professor of Anglo-Saxon (Old English) at Oxford, and was a very accomplished linguist. I think it highly unlikely that he or any of his Catholic family were "charismatics" during his lifetime.

Tolkien first saw Welsh on the coal waggons that arrived in his home town of Birmingham England from South Wales.
I don't know where or how he became acquainted with Finnish (but see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Middle-earth), but the orthographical resemblance between Finnish and the Elvish languages is striking.
E.g. "Alavilla mailla hallan vaara" looks Elvish, but is actually Finnish and means "Danger of frost in the lowlands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvish_languages

Hope I have opened a window rather than burst a bubble here?
Go under the Mercy
+pb


PS. Did Walter Hooper and Michael Tolkien really say that? Why?

When I became a Christian 30 years ago the Charismatic thing was very much what was going on. I was given books to read that talked about tongues and so I asked for the gift. The first person I heard speak in tongues was me. Later I read Suenons and found him very helpful. I accept his point that tongues is not a supernatural gift. Later I felt the whole charismatic thing was unbalanced. Spiritual authority could give way to spiritual abuse. I was inspired by Francis Schaeffer and visited the English L'Abri. Reformed thought became more important to me. Still later I began to explore a more Catholic spirituality, especially to use Ignatian forms of prayer. I have never really stopped being a Charismatic I still speak in tongues sometimes and will embarass my daughter in our not really Charismatic Church by putting my hands in the air if the mood takes me but I got very frustrated when people were seeing this as the answer to all problems. Apart from Suenons the writer I found most helpful in putting Charismatic things into perspective was Wayne Grudem.

The History of Pentacostalism in its modern from can be traced back to Wesley. Wesley influenced by William Law talked of sanctification as a second experience after justification; not so much a process as an event. He's surprisingly similar to John of the Cross in the way he sees this experience preceded by a kind of darkness or despair. Anyway the focus gradually shifted from sanctification to empowerment for ministry and this second blessing came to be referred to by the Biblical name baptism in the spirit. At the beginning of the twentieth century a group of students at a Bible school in the states were asked what the sign of this baptism was. They came to the conclusion it was tongues. They prayed for the gift and the rest is history. However there have surely been other outbreaks of tongue speaking.

On a different tack what is the current charismatic view on David Wilkerson. He was an early hero of mine but I got the impression a lot of the detailed predictions in the vision did not come to pass. Did he go off the rails or was he a prophetic voice?

David Wilkerson has been a part of my Fellowship on and off since his days as a young pastor in Pennsylvania. Most recently he was pastor of Times Square Church in NYC, although I believe he has now retired.

He has published a few books that have been based around prophecies he's given that have been questionable. Although I'm not willing to call him "off the rails", his credibility has probably taken a hit.

- Dan -