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Rowan Williams and Sharia Law

Postby galion » February 17th, 2008, 9:24 pm

Oh dear. It occurs to me that while Rusmeister and I could with profit discuss Chesterton, the Russian Orthodox Church and the history of the women's movement in Britain, that is not what this thread is supposed to be about, and I am at fault for diverting it with the post that started this - like Dr Williams, I failed to make clear what I meant. Many years ago I read Emily Dickinson:
"Tell all the truth, but tell it slant -
Success in circuit lies".
Sorry, Emily, you got that wrong and I am evidence thereof. Anyway, my apologies for leading us off the track.

What I actually intended to say was that a lot of freedoms that we tend to take for granted now had to be fought for, and were hard won, and we get a bit worried when we see an attempt to deprive at least Muslim women of some of them - as indeed do many Muslim women, like Yasmin Alibhai Brown and those Canadian Muslims. Let's take it from there.
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Postby rusmeister » February 18th, 2008, 7:05 pm

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Postby galion » February 18th, 2008, 8:59 pm

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Postby postodave » February 18th, 2008, 10:40 pm

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby rusmeister » February 19th, 2008, 10:31 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby postodave » February 19th, 2008, 8:16 pm

I did not think that the Orthodox Church as such espoused any particular political ideology. If you want to oppose liberalism then the next question is what you want to put in its place. I don't think these issues can be resolved by Christians on an adhoc basis i.e. just saying we don't think Christian organizations should be forced to employ homosexuals so lets have an opt out clause in all policies that espouse gay rights. Instead we have to say as Williams is doing how do our ideas about rights and justice work in a multicultural society. And if the idea of individual rights is not the basis for a judicial system then what is?

As for Lewis and the C of E. He lived in the heyday of theological liberalism; in the UK at least the Church is much more conservative. As for his politics Lewis was an increadibly liberal Christian. Compare his teaching on the politics of marriage with traditional views and that becomes plain. Tolkien certainly thought Lewis's idea of different marriage arrangements for different people depending whether they were Christian or not was way too liberal. And Lewis's argument for that; that if Muslim's were to try and impose their ideas about alcohol on him he would object. I think Lewis and Rowan Williams would have been on the same political wavelength. Isn't Lewis idea of making room in law for non-Christian ideas about non-permanent marriages exactly the same kind of thing as Williams attempts to adapt English law to the needs of Muslims. And on the gay issue: would Lewis have accepted the idea of civil union for some of his gay friends; I am sure it would be consistant with his politica as indicated above. Does that mean he would have felt the Church should have gay priests: I'm sure he would have felt that it was okay if they were celibate but otherwisw not. So you see he combined political liberalism with theological conservatism.
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Postby rusmeister » February 20th, 2008, 1:54 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby postodave » February 20th, 2008, 1:29 pm

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby rusmeister » February 21st, 2008, 2:16 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby postodave » February 21st, 2008, 11:10 pm

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby rusmeister » February 22nd, 2008, 12:56 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby rusmeister » February 22nd, 2008, 12:59 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby postodave » February 22nd, 2008, 11:57 pm

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby rusmeister » February 23rd, 2008, 4:43 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby postodave » February 23rd, 2008, 11:07 am

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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