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Luther: "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has

Luther: "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has

Postby mitchellmckain » July 10th, 2008, 4:33 am

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Postby dritterpunkt » July 10th, 2008, 7:16 am

I don't think CS Lewis would have agreed on that either. I think he would have said his strong faith concluded from careful reasoning, that's just the opposite of what Luther says here.
I guess it goes along with Sola Fide but I don't quite comprehend the line of thought.
I mean take Lewis' "Aut deus aut homo malus" about Jesus divinity. He reached to that conclusion by reason!
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Postby Lioba » July 10th, 2008, 8:05 am

I could not agree with Luther in what he says here, but it would be interesting to see in which context it was said.
Sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura - that´s a concept, that can stand alone and does not necessarily need much context for understanding. Although it could be helpfull to to keep in mind that many things said during the reformation are reactions on an actual situations- often not on the real teachings of the catholic church but on it´s misuse.- See Tetzel or the extremes to which Inquisition went especially in Germany.
But just in those points I personally see a lack of reasonable thinking and acting in the local churches- a superstition and hysterics that led to extremes and obviously was far from the original idea.
Iustitia est ad alterum.
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Re: Luther: "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith ha

Postby Ben2747 » July 10th, 2008, 12:19 pm

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Postby sqrt[-1] » July 10th, 2008, 1:01 pm

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Postby Lioba » July 10th, 2008, 3:24 pm

I´m afraid in that point I´m clearly on the catholic side-will that make me a heretic inside my heretic church? :rolleyes:
About Luther- I do not see him as a great theologian and although he was an intelligent man, he was not an intelectual person in his deepest heart.
What he really was- he was a pastor, a preacher a man concerned about the practical execution of christian faith.
From this background I understand many points of his protest- but then their is a great difference between a good theology poorly executed- as it really was at that times in Germany- and wrong teaching. I personally have some problems understanding some teachings as the difference between Konsubstantiation and Transsubstantiation or why I should believe that The Lords Mother was taken to heaven and didn´t see death. This would not be a problem to me, because it happened before to Henoch and Eliah.
Iustitia est ad alterum.
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Postby mitchellmckain » July 10th, 2008, 4:19 pm

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Postby Sven » July 10th, 2008, 8:20 pm

Rat! he found breath to whisper, shaking. Are you afraid?
Afraid? murmured the Rat, his eyes shining with unutterable love.
Afraid! Of Him? O, never, never! And yet -- and yet -- O, Mole, I am afraid!
Then the two animals, crouching to the earth, bowed their heads and did worship.
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Postby postodave » July 10th, 2008, 9:29 pm

see also Alistair McGrath on Dawkins' use or rather misunderstanding of Luther's attacks on reason - 'the devil's whore'. He argues that read in context Luther says we refuse to believethat we can be saved by grace because to our reason it seems too good to be true.

When I was 17 I wrote a punk song about the Reformation it went:

Luther was a monk who tried to get it on
He said he did not want to start a new religion
He said he wanted change but the price of change is dear
So belt a bishop baby cos the Reformation's here

Luther was a cat who tried to steal the scene
He scribbled down his theses in 1517
He said I am a rocker and the church in Rome is dead
As he loudly nailed his theses to the bishop's head

Luther was a punk
even though he was a monk
Anarchistic would be theocrat who rose above his station
And Luther and the boys
knew how to raise a noise
And they hated everybody so they had a reformation

Not all of that is strictly speaking true
So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby sqrt[-1] » July 11th, 2008, 11:38 am

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Postby sqrt[-1] » July 11th, 2008, 11:39 am

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Postby Lioba » July 11th, 2008, 12:07 pm

Iustitia est ad alterum.
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Postby Lioba » July 11th, 2008, 2:56 pm

Iustitia est ad alterum.
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Postby dritterpunkt » July 11th, 2008, 4:57 pm

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Postby mitchellmckain » July 11th, 2008, 9:19 pm

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