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mutable things or things that are mutable

mutable things or things that are mutable

Postby Robert » July 21st, 2008, 5:24 pm

This is a question that has, oddly enough, plagued me for some time. I thought that I would toss it out there and see if any of you philosophers would have an answer for me.

We know that there are things that are mutable, or changing, and things that are immutable, or eternal. Now, accordingly, such things as God, the soul, universals and the like are immutable and thus not subject to change or decay. While mutable things are typical those things pertaining to this world of change and decay.

Now, with this in mind, are there then things that are mutable, or are these things mutable? Or in other words, are things that are mutable actually things 'in' time and thus mutable only in a mode of existence or are they categorically mutable to where when this world passes away they too pass away?

I think this is an interesting question. What do you think?
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Postby JRosemary » July 21st, 2008, 5:47 pm

I've never been convinced that God--and the breath or soul that He breathes into us--really is unchanging and immutable. He's quite capable of changing His mind according to several parts of the Torah and other Hebrew Scriptures. (A plea from Moshe, and He stays His hand--and that's just one example of many.)

I'd presume His values are unchanging--but sometimes in Scripture it seems that humanity has to remind Him of them!

You can dismiss those passages if you like--but I see no reason to do so out of hand. Humans like to think of God as unchanging, but I doubt the accuracy of that view. In fact, I'd really rather not think of Him that way. I don't worship Aristotle's Unmoved Mover, after all. As Heschel pointed out, the God of Israel is pretty much the Most-Moved Mover.
Last edited by JRosemary on July 21st, 2008, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby w4tvq » July 21st, 2008, 5:50 pm

Perhaps Paul Tillich can be of help with this question. Tillich describes [what we can grasp of] God as the Ultimate Ground of All Being. Which is to say, everything that is, is because it subsists in Him. I think this is the message that is contained in John 1:1-14 as well: all things were made by The Word of God. As Genesis puts it, He [i]said it[/i], and it was.

It follows that it only continues to be if He continues to sustain its existence. Everything -- the physical universe, the mind, the soul, everything would cease to be if He ceased to sustain its being. He alone is self-existent.

Within the context of the existing physical universe there are, of course, numerous constants -- E=MC2, Planck's constant, the speed of light, etc., yet all of these would cease the instant there were no physical universe for them to describe. Presumably He could will to discontinue supporting the being of the physical universe and yet continue to support the exitence of the spiritual (metaphysical) universe -- i.w., the mind, soul and spirit. It is, of course, the contention of much of Christianity that that is precisely what will come to pass.

Thanks for a most interesting question.

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Postby JRosemary » July 21st, 2008, 5:55 pm

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Postby Robert » July 21st, 2008, 7:58 pm

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Postby Robert » July 21st, 2008, 8:04 pm

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Postby Robert » July 21st, 2008, 8:08 pm

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Postby JRosemary » July 21st, 2008, 8:27 pm

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Postby JRosemary » July 21st, 2008, 8:36 pm

Last edited by JRosemary on July 21st, 2008, 8:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby cyranorox » July 21st, 2008, 8:39 pm

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Postby Tuke » July 21st, 2008, 9:12 pm

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." 2 Corinthians IV.18
Lewis argues the mutable is ephemeral in The Weight of Glory.
"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Postby postodave » July 21st, 2008, 10:04 pm

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby Robert » July 22nd, 2008, 2:48 am

[I am] Freudian Viennese by night, by day [I am] Marxian Muscovite

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Postby Robert » July 22nd, 2008, 3:03 am

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Postby Robert » July 22nd, 2008, 3:12 am

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