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Archbishop: gay relationships 'comparable to marriage'

Archbishop: gay relationships 'comparable to marriage'

Postby john » August 7th, 2008, 10:35 pm

Rowan Williams believes that gay sexual relationships can “reflect the love of God” in a way that is comparable to marriage. Gay partnerships pose the same ethical questions as those between men and women, and the key issue for Christians is that they are faithful and lifelong, he believes.

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Postby Jesse Hove » August 8th, 2008, 12:54 am

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Postby rusmeister » August 8th, 2008, 1:12 am

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Postby Jesse Hove » August 8th, 2008, 8:17 am

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Postby mitchellmckain » August 8th, 2008, 9:46 am

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Postby rusmeister » August 8th, 2008, 1:57 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Adam Linton » August 8th, 2008, 6:28 pm

With substantial hesitancy I post this...

As Rus has said, the topic has been discussed extensively elsewhere--so we're unlikely to add much new to it here at this point. I don't want to argue it here at all, only perhaps help give a sense of how those of us on the "liberal/progressive" side of the issue (even if we're otherwise quite traditional, theologically speaking) might have come to where we are.

I'll try to do so by posing a series of "what if" questions...

What if--after extensive observation, as well as critical examination of history--one came to question if "the Church" (and by this I mean to include Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestants)--unlike the cases of "murder, theft" and such--really had believed what it said about homosexuality?

What if--after extensive observation, as well as critical examination of history--one came to wonder if what "the Church" was saying about homosexuality was, in fact, rhetorical cover for a systemic "don't ask, don't tell" policy?

What if--after extensive observation, as well as critical examination of history--one came to notice that the occasional poor souls singled out for church discipline in regard to homosexuality always seemed to be--how shall I say it?--ecclesiastical "small fry"--and never those with influential contacts or too much sensitive inside information?

What if--after a such difficult, sometimes personally agonizing, re-assessment of the meaning of "tradition," one turned to the Scriptures--both looking at how the Church has read them in history and using, as well, (in a context of faith) the best critical tools--one began seriously to suspect that the contemporary "conservative" argument against the possibility of a faithful, permanent, mutually exclusive same sex-relationship was, in fact, based on a misreading of Scripture (specifically, the interpretive use of an impossible, anachronistic biblical referent)?

I don't want to argue this. I don't want to besmirch anyone or any faith tradition.

But, granted possible answers to these "what ifs," can it be humanly understood how someone like Rowan Williams could come to be seen as a remarkably good Christian leader--and how the Anglican Communion/Episcopal Church--yes, with all its very open struggles on the matter--might start to look like a very faithful option?

Let the reader understand. Consider this post as an opportunity to get to know the poster better. I hope that I haven't been offensive--and ask pardon if I have.

(And by the way, the world-wide debate climate on this being what it now is, for the record, let me assure you--for whatever it's worth--that I am a "straight-as-an arrow" kind of guy; very happily, faithfully, and traditionally married [in one mutually-unique marriage] for thiry-one years, with five wonderful children.)
Last edited by Adam Linton on August 8th, 2008, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cyranorox » August 8th, 2008, 6:52 pm

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Postby rusmeister » August 8th, 2008, 7:15 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby JRosemary » August 8th, 2008, 7:35 pm

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Postby mitchellmckain » August 9th, 2008, 10:23 am

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Postby rusmeister » August 9th, 2008, 6:49 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Postby Adam » August 9th, 2008, 8:22 pm

The recognition that homosexual relationships can promote virtue is an important first step in both denying OR AFFIRMING that homosexual activity is a sin.

Authority is validated by understanding. The very word itself implies that judgement is exercised by one with the intimate knowledge of an object that only it's author can possess.

If various institutions of the Church came forward and admitted that homosexual relationships can be loving, faithful, and honorable, but declared nonetheless that they simply do not fulfill God's purpose for creating man and woman and instituting sex and marriage, then I should take such a declaration very, very seriously.

However, as long as the Church contends that homosexual relationships are shameful, devious, and faithless, then any further declaration they make is simply invalidated by their demonstrated ignorance: how could I trust the Church to judge homosexual relationships if, by simple unfamiliarity or complex prejudice, the Church so starkly misidentifies it that it ceases to be discussing the matter at all? How can I trust the Church to judge me if it does not know me, if indeed it time and time again displays an unwillingness to get to know me?

Let there be no mistake; this is not rhetorical flourish. I should very much appreciate the honest and right judgement of the Church, and if I thought It could be trusted, if It earned my trust by, like Christ, looking in my eyes and knowing me, then I should submit to whatever judgement it offered. But I simply can't trust the Church when it says something akin to "Homosexuality is sinful because men ought not stand on their heads while eating Jello pudding!" and I'm left asking myself "Headstands? Jello? What are they talking about? Surely not me." The source of all authority is intimate knowledge. But the Church considers homosexuality so gravely sinful that it does not want to be tarnished by the sort of intimacy that could bring this knowledge. The Church is left blindly judging a life that they refuse to look in the eye, and the Church, homosexuals, and the truth, whatever it is, all suffer in the meantime.

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Postby Stanley Anderson » August 9th, 2008, 11:16 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Postby Adam » August 10th, 2008, 12:42 am

"Love is the only art that poorly imitates nature."
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