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Original sin

Original sin

Postby Karen » September 7th, 2008, 1:24 pm

A review of , by Alan Jacobs, a professor at Wheaton College.
I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 3:35 pm

Last edited by JRosemary on September 7th, 2008, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 4:31 pm

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Re: Original sin

Postby Kolbitar » September 7th, 2008, 5:05 pm

The man who lives in contact with what he believes to be a living Church is a man always expecting to meet Plato and Shakespeare tomorrow at breakfast. He is always expecting to see some truth that he has never seen before. --Chesterton

Sober Inebriation: http://soberinebriationblog.blogspot.com/
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Re: Original sin

Postby Kolbitar » September 7th, 2008, 5:08 pm

The man who lives in contact with what he believes to be a living Church is a man always expecting to meet Plato and Shakespeare tomorrow at breakfast. He is always expecting to see some truth that he has never seen before. --Chesterton

Sober Inebriation: http://soberinebriationblog.blogspot.com/
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Re: Original sin

Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 5:17 pm

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Postby postodave » September 7th, 2008, 7:40 pm

People may like to check this out. Andrew says he never got a reply from Fox.
It always seems to me that the biggest problem with Augustine's view is this idea of sexual transmission. Curiously enough it lead to a division amongst conservative protestant theologians at the end of the nineteenth and beginning of the twentieth century. Darwinism at that time was in decline and many favoured some form of Lamarkism which fits well with Augustine's ideas because it says aquired characteristics can be inherited. Those who stuck with Darwin began to adopt a federal view of the fall, seeing Adam as our divenely chosen representative. This fits in better with any view that does not see Adam as the biological father of the human race and so has been adopted by many since.

I think we have to be clear that even the darkest Calvinist was never suggesting that God's image in man had been completely wiped out. The Eastern Church talks about ancestral sin which seems to mean that we are biased towards sin because we are born into a sinful environment. I would like to see those references to father's before Augustine who held his view and see if they were hinting at something more like this view than Augustine's. Also whether they were eastern or western. Jerome for example has a fairly gloomy view of human sexuality as Luther was fond of pointing out.

Lewis says somewhere that there are two reasons for being a democrat: the first is to think people are so good they deserve power; the second is to think they are so bad that those in power need the restraint of democracy. As you may guess he opts for the second.

There's a long passage in David Stern's Jewish New Testament Commentary where he looks at various versions of the doctrine of original sin and concludes that most Jews will only feel comfortable with the weaker versions of the doctrine. I can't remember what conclusion he comes to for himself (he's a 'messianic Jew') He certainly wants a weaker than Augustinian version. My intuition is that Augustine got this one wrong but I'd find it hard to pin down where beyond dismissing his idea of biological inheritance of sin as being out of step with current biological theory.
So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 7:51 pm

Last edited by JRosemary on September 7th, 2008, 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 8:14 pm

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Re: Original sin

Postby Kolbitar » September 7th, 2008, 8:25 pm

The man who lives in contact with what he believes to be a living Church is a man always expecting to meet Plato and Shakespeare tomorrow at breakfast. He is always expecting to see some truth that he has never seen before. --Chesterton

Sober Inebriation: http://soberinebriationblog.blogspot.com/
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Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 8:36 pm

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Postby Tuke » September 7th, 2008, 9:42 pm

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Postby Tuke » September 7th, 2008, 9:47 pm

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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Postby JRosemary » September 7th, 2008, 10:07 pm

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Postby Tuke » September 8th, 2008, 3:04 am

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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