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Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby splashen » November 15th, 2008, 9:09 pm

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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby hammurabi2000 » November 22nd, 2008, 1:58 pm

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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby splashen » November 22nd, 2008, 8:57 pm

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Postby archenland_knight » November 23rd, 2008, 1:40 am

We would really need actual Muslims to carry on such a conversation. I doubt seriously that Lewis saw much difference in the different strains of Islam. There was not as much conflict with the west then as now, and being a professor of Medeival Literature, I suspect what he knew of Islam came from the accounts of the Crusaders and The Song Of Roland.

He mentions them a time or two in Mere Christianity and mentions a few of their proverbs in The Abolition of Man appendix, but beyond that, I don't recall his having much to say.

There are obvious parallels with the Calormen in CoN, but CoN is fantasy, and we should not read too much into that.
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Postby Lioba » November 23rd, 2008, 9:00 pm

Iustitia est ad alterum.
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby nomad » December 3rd, 2008, 5:59 pm

We certainly would need some Muslims to carry on a conversation akin to the one on Christian denominations.

A note about the Calormenes. I think that what Lewis was drawing on was Islamic and Hindu imagery, not those religions themselves. Insofar as Islamic imagery goes, it would have to be mostly from the Shiites, and possibly Sufis, because the Sunni's are quite against imagery and ritual. Or, quite likely much of what Lewis had seen, like most westerners, was western interpretations and imaginations- such as paintings by Delacroix.
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby Lioba » December 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

I think Lewis had oriental culture in general in mind- Islam is a relatively young religion in a place that has seen civilisations come and go long before Mohammed.Tashbaan is an oriental city ruled by despotes, but some things like pictures and statues of a god is not at all islamic and despotisme doesn´t fit in with sufisme.Aravis and Rabadash believe themselves to be descendants of the god Tash- that would be an obscenity for every muslim. We tend to identify Calormen with Islam because Islam is a religion connected to the Orient and calormen is the Orient in the world of Narnia.What is astonishing is that we only see the bad things Lewis describes, but their are also positive things. He admits that calormen have a great style in tellling stories,a great but somewhat sinister and cruel civilisation: that calormen can be very brave- even Rabadash is, Emeth and Aravis are also and both are described as upright and reliable.
About information about Islam- their are relatively good sides in the Net in German, where muslims try to explain their religion and culture to Europeans, but I do not know if something like that exists in English.
Hmm; little test if you really try to find information:
After the islamic calendar I was born on the 17th day of the month Safar in the year 1377.
How old am I and when is my birthday in our calendar. :snow-wink: ?
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby girlfreddy » December 3rd, 2008, 9:23 pm

Friday, September 13, 1957? And your age is 51.

Mine is the 22 day of Safar, 1381 (it kind of makes me sound older than I really am!). Oh, and it was a Saturday.
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby Lioba » December 4th, 2008, 1:06 pm

Girlfreddy :clap: :clap: :clap:
So you are born in 1961, 5th 0f august!
Question is- is their any interest in discussing islam or should we delay it for a moment?
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby archenland_knight » December 4th, 2008, 5:33 pm

You make good points Lioba. Muslims would never have a temple with any kind of idol in it of the sort Tirian reports having seen in Tashban. I was just never sure if Lewis was including pre-Islamic elements of Arab culture in the Calormen, or if he was modeling them on a sort of Medevial Europen understanding of Islam. (An understanding I'm sure he knew was incorrect, but that makes for great stories.)
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby girlfreddy » December 4th, 2008, 7:12 pm

How would telling people to be nice to one another get a man crucified? What government would execute Mister Rogers or Captain Kangaroo?
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby Lioba » December 4th, 2008, 9:10 pm

girlfreddy- I would like just to find out together about Islam, but that takes some time of research. Before christmas i have not much extra time- but maybe in the New Year i could partake in such a discussion.
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby Lioba » December 4th, 2008, 9:43 pm

Archenland -Knight:
Both of your suggestions sound interesting.Narnia is somehow mediaval and Lewis was Medieavist.
An example for what I meant with oriental:
When I was a young girl I had a friend who was an oriental Christian that lived with her fmily in Germany.
When we talked about the different cultures she confessed that Smetanas Moldau or Vivaldis For Seasons was absolutely fascinating for her-
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLPLO90fSk
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLPLO90fSk
instrumental music, songs, poems about rivers, trees . landscapes were totally unknown to her.Here is Nature- their is culture, animals are only loved when part of culture- like highbred horses, greyhounds, trained falcons, real beautiful cats.
So in this Lewis made a good observation between occidental and oriental mentality when he created the Narnia.
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby Tuke » December 6th, 2008, 10:00 am

I'm about a third of my way through the Koran, and I'm stunned how often Allah, through his prophet Muhammad, says that Jesus is not God's Son; furthermore, that anyone who says He is is an infidel and must be summarily executed. Sheesh, when we contradict the Koran they'll slit our throats like pigs and apes! I'm not speaking of all Muslims; the Sufis are pretty cool and artsie, almost charismatic.
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Re: Muslim Sects: Sunni, Shiite, Etc;

Postby Tuke » December 6th, 2008, 10:10 am

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
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