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Apokatastasis Now!

Apokatastasis Now!

Postby postodave » November 26th, 2008, 8:50 pm

It's Cyranox's shout line but I read this not long ago:
It's by Xara's friend Andreas. It seems to me very similar to Karl Barth's belief that although we cannot dogmatically affirm that all will eventually be saved we can have that hope.
Someone once said to me that at the resurrection even the pile on the carpet will be redeemed. Mother Julian said sin is behavable but all shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well. Though she could square this with Church teaching only by saying both were true and this was impossible for man but possible for God.
What do people reckon??
So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby agingjb » November 26th, 2008, 10:32 pm

Indeed, although the various theologies enjoyed here may compel many to doubt universal salvation, I would have thought we would do well to hope for it.
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Postby cyranorox » November 26th, 2008, 10:59 pm

Right both: a hope, a call; not a dogma. Supported by the idea of intercession, and the fact of universal free will, so that possibly everyone will choose Life.

btw, I'm not an Ox but a Rox: CyranoRox [Cyrano rocks]
Apocatastasis Now!
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Postby Leslie » November 27th, 2008, 3:27 am

"What are you laughing at?"
"At myself. My little puny self," said Phillipa.
--Rumer Godden, In This House of Brede
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Postby postodave » November 27th, 2008, 7:59 pm

So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Postby Lioba » November 27th, 2008, 9:26 pm

Cyrano - like in "de Bérgerac"?
I do not know if all will be saved, because I do not know if they want to- you can hardly pull someone into heaven who doesn´t want this.
what I really see as bad is to make people frightened by threatening them with stories about hell. Jesus didn´t shy back from the theme " judgement" , but he prefered to convince people, not to push them.
Iustitia est ad alterum.
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Re: Apokatastasis Now!

Postby Kolbitar » November 28th, 2008, 5:13 pm

The man who lives in contact with what he believes to be a living Church is a man always expecting to meet Plato and Shakespeare tomorrow at breakfast. He is always expecting to see some truth that he has never seen before. --Chesterton

Sober Inebriation: http://soberinebriationblog.blogspot.com/
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Re: Apokatastasis Now!

Postby postodave » November 30th, 2008, 1:26 pm

Thanks for that - it's a very good piece of writing - it seems to get the ballance just right.
So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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Re: Apokatastasis Now!

Postby cyranorox » December 1st, 2008, 12:49 am

I like Von Balthazar too.

re: the name: O post-od-ave, pos-toda-ve, its Cyrano + Roxanne, portmanteau. not a cyan/aurochs - though I like that, too, and may use it when i feel bovine and blue.

The payoff for hoping all will be saved, as Leslie also sees, is that you must forgive everyone. I spent a long time pondering forgiveness, finding that I still felt anger or resentment after I consciously forgave someone. I finally realised that forgiving and hoping for someone's entry into the Kingdom are formally the same thing. But, I can directly ask for someone's salvation, as a willed action. I cannot feel kindly or friendly in some cases. So this move shifts the problem, and the obligation, to a domain where I can do what I ought. It's not enough, of course, but it's necessary.
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