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Apokatastasis Now!

PostPosted: November 26th, 2008, 8:50 pm
by postodave
It's Cyranox's shout line but I read this not long ago:
It's by Xara's friend Andreas. It seems to me very similar to Karl Barth's belief that although we cannot dogmatically affirm that all will eventually be saved we can have that hope.
Someone once said to me that at the resurrection even the pile on the carpet will be redeemed. Mother Julian said sin is behavable but all shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well. Though she could square this with Church teaching only by saying both were true and this was impossible for man but possible for God.
What do people reckon??

PostPosted: November 26th, 2008, 10:32 pm
by agingjb
Indeed, although the various theologies enjoyed here may compel many to doubt universal salvation, I would have thought we would do well to hope for it.

PostPosted: November 26th, 2008, 10:59 pm
by cyranorox
Right both: a hope, a call; not a dogma. Supported by the idea of intercession, and the fact of universal free will, so that possibly everyone will choose Life.

btw, I'm not an Ox but a Rox: CyranoRox [Cyrano rocks]

PostPosted: November 27th, 2008, 3:27 am
by Leslie

PostPosted: November 27th, 2008, 7:59 pm
by postodave

PostPosted: November 27th, 2008, 9:26 pm
by Lioba
Cyrano - like in "de Bérgerac"?
I do not know if all will be saved, because I do not know if they want to- you can hardly pull someone into heaven who doesn´t want this.
what I really see as bad is to make people frightened by threatening them with stories about hell. Jesus didn´t shy back from the theme " judgement" , but he prefered to convince people, not to push them.

Re: Apokatastasis Now!

PostPosted: November 28th, 2008, 5:13 pm
by Kolbitar

Re: Apokatastasis Now!

PostPosted: November 30th, 2008, 1:26 pm
by postodave
Thanks for that - it's a very good piece of writing - it seems to get the ballance just right.

Re: Apokatastasis Now!

PostPosted: December 1st, 2008, 12:49 am
by cyranorox
I like Von Balthazar too.

re: the name: O post-od-ave, pos-toda-ve, its Cyrano + Roxanne, portmanteau. not a cyan/aurochs - though I like that, too, and may use it when i feel bovine and blue.

The payoff for hoping all will be saved, as Leslie also sees, is that you must forgive everyone. I spent a long time pondering forgiveness, finding that I still felt anger or resentment after I consciously forgave someone. I finally realised that forgiving and hoping for someone's entry into the Kingdom are formally the same thing. But, I can directly ask for someone's salvation, as a willed action. I cannot feel kindly or friendly in some cases. So this move shifts the problem, and the obligation, to a domain where I can do what I ought. It's not enough, of course, but it's necessary.