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It seems like there's always a "but"

It seems like there's always a "but"

Postby deadwhitemale » 23 Feb 2009, 20:17

"Salvation is free, but... . "God is forgiving and merciful," but... . "But, but, but," and so on, seemingly forever.

DWM
"It is when we try to grapple with another man's intimate need that we perceive how incomprehensible, wavering, and misty are the beings that share with us the sight of the stars and the warmth of the sun." -- Joseph Conrad, Lord Jim(1899?)
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Re: It seems like there's always a "but"

Postby archenland_knight » 23 Feb 2009, 20:50

From the standpoint of the logician, there is really no difference between "but" and "and". So, it works just as well to say, "God is merciful and forgiving and Holy and Righteous" as opposed to "but". "Salvation is free AND ..." okay, I'm not sure what you were going to put after "but" on that one.

I know of no software development tool or programming language that has a "but" operator. They all have an "And". They all have an "OR". Some of the older ones had an "XOR" (exclusive Or). Never have I encountered a "BUT". You don't need it. "AND" serves the same purpose.

My point is that I try to look at theological issues with the "AND" operator as opposed to the "BUT" operator. It handles all the same situations, but helps me see things a little more positively.

Perhaps you could share some of the specifics "but" clauses that seem to be giving you trouble.
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
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Re: It seems like there's always a "but"

Postby Stanley Anderson » 23 Feb 2009, 21:07

archenland_knight wrote:It handles all the same situations, but helps me see things a little more positively.


Don't you mean "It handles all the same situations, AND helps me see things a little more positively"? :smile:

--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: It seems like there's always a "but"

Postby archenland_knight » 23 Feb 2009, 21:53

Stanley wrote:Don't you mean "It handles all the same situations, AND helps me see things a little more positively"?


:blush: Yes, that's what I meant. See, my thinking got all corrupted by all the mentions of "but".
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
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Re: It seems like there's always a "but"

Postby mitchellmckain » 24 Feb 2009, 01:51

deadwhitemale wrote:"Salvation is free, but... . "God is forgiving and merciful," but... . "But, but, but," and so on, seemingly forever.

DWM

Is this addiction to one-liners a consequence of newspaper headlines? Well to be fair, when we compare the Ptolemaic solar system with all its "buts" to the Copernican model, the superiority of the Copernican model is obvious and perhaps this example creates the unrealistic expectation that all truths should be like this. But the truth is that this sort of thing is the exception to the rule, for in most things we can only find accuracy in successive approximation.

Successive approximation is perfectly natural. Consider the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. We call it pi and it is about 3.14, right? But 3.1416 would be more accurate. But 3.14159 would be more accurate. But 3.141592 would be more accurate. But 3.1415927 would be more accurate. But 3.14159265 would be more accurate. But 3.141592654 would be more accurate. ...and no mater how far you go there will always be another but... We can give it the name of pi but that doesn't really get rid of all those buts now does it. Perhaps the best we can do is write down the proceedure for getting all the digits and that proceedure itself will represent the most compact version of pi in its entirety.

The origin this successive approximation thing in Christianity is due to misunderstandings. Someone grasps the first approximation "Salvation is free" and then misunderstands and also concludes... "so I can do whatever I want", which is wrong. And so Christian explanations are dealing with all these misunderstandings. But if you want a compact representation of what Christians believe, you cannot do much better than the Bible. Its not a one-liner I am afraid.
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Re: It seems like there's always a "but"

Postby postodave » 24 Feb 2009, 21:49

I agree with Mitch.
Someone once asked Karl Barth to summarise his theology. He said 'Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so.'
You sound like you feel judges Deadwhitemale.
So I drew my sword and got ready
But the lamb ran away with the crown
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