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Does being happy prove you're right?

Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby archenland_knight » 13 Apr 2009, 15:43

Xara wrote:In the wise words of Slartibartfast: "I'd much rather be happy than right any day."


:lol:

Now, those are some true words of wisdom.
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby Stanley Anderson » 13 Apr 2009, 16:31

archenland_knight wrote:Now, one might think that a government system will have hard and fast rules, "objective criteria", I believe you said. Well, they do have such criteria, but it is still up to a human to interpret them. And I have more than once witnessed a government employee interpret the rule to fit their own bias...


??? *looking up to make sure who the poster of that comment was*

Hmmm...For a minute there, I almost thought I was reading one of rusmeister's posts about the differencs between sola scriptura and church authority :smile:

(back to the subject at hand),
--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby deadwhitemale » 13 Apr 2009, 21:42

I'm really not a follower of Ayn Rand -- not a Randian or big-O Objectivist or "randroid" or whatever. I just agree with some things she said. I disagree with others. I quote her when she says something I think is true (as far as it goes) and quotable. I agree with some things Aldous Huxley said. (I often quote from Chapter Seventeen of Brave New World.) I agree with some things Al Capone and Charles Manson said.

I don't think I am an especially nice guy. Certainly I am not warm or affectionate, or cheerful or outgoing or effervescent.

But am I miserly, etc.? I dunno. At the moment there is hardly enough of anything that I can actually call my own to be miserly or stingy about. I make sure my Dad's bills get paid. The nursing home or the pharmaceutical company or some doctor or some hospital sends me a bill, I send them a signed check. So far none of them bounced. A day may come when one will bounce.

I seem to resemble ArchenlandKnight to the extent that I too ask and expect almost nothing from the government, other than to be left alone. I would very much like to have a house with a roof that doesn't leak and nice hardwood floors instead of beer-soaked wall-to-wall carpet over rotting particle board, and my own clothes washer and dryer, and a toilet that works right. I'd like a lot of work done on my teeth, a pair of shoes that fit and aren't literally falling apart, etc..

I just don't think I have any right to ask the government to take away anything from anyone else in order to supply me with whatever I want or need. I don't see how I have any sort of exagerrated sense of entitlement. All I feel entitled to is to be left alone and not interfered with. I want to come and go as I please without particularly having to explain myself to anyone. I don't want what's anyone else's. I just want what's mine.

DWM
"It is when we try to grapple with another man's intimate need that we perceive how incomprehensible, wavering, and misty are the beings that share with us the sight of the stars and the warmth of the sun." -- Joseph Conrad, Lord Jim(1899?)
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby Xara » 13 Apr 2009, 22:46

deadwhitemale wrote:I'm really not a follower of Ayn Rand -- not a Randian or big-O Objectivist or "randroid" or whatever. I just agree with some things she said. I disagree with others. I quote her when she says something I think is true (as far as it goes) and quotable. I agree with some things Aldous Huxley said. (I often quote from Chapter Seventeen of Brave New World.) I agree with some things Al Capone and Charles Manson said.

I don't think I am an especially nice guy. Certainly I am not warm or affectionate, or cheerful or outgoing or effervescent.

But am I miserly, etc.? I dunno. At the moment there is hardly enough of anything that I can actually call my own to be miserly or stingy about. I make sure my Dad's bills get paid. The nursing home or the pharmaceutical company or some doctor or some hospital sends me a bill, I send them a signed check. So far none of them bounced. A day may come when one will bounce.

I seem to resemble ArchenlandKnight to the extent that I too ask and expect almost nothing from the government, other than to be left alone. I would very much like to have a house with a roof that doesn't leak and nice hardwood floors instead of beer-soaked wall-to-wall carpet over rotting particle board, and my own clothes washer and dryer, and a toilet that works right. I'd like a lot of work done on my teeth, a pair of shoes that fit and aren't literally falling apart, etc..

I just don't think I have any right to ask the government to take away anything from anyone else in order to supply me with whatever I want or need. I don't see how I have any sort of exagerrated sense of entitlement. All I feel entitled to is to be left alone and not interfered with. I want to come and go as I please without particularly having to explain myself to anyone. I don't want what's anyone else's. I just want what's mine.

DWM


We reach a certain level when we don't make problems for ourselves and can honestly say that all of our problems are caused by others. We obtain maturity when we are able to ask ourselves "What problems am I causing for others through my actions or inaction?"
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby cyranorox » 14 Apr 2009, 02:55

DWM, I just wanted to quote this
So much of what comes to us is beyond our control. Wealth, physical beauty, strength, intelligence, or their opposites are so seldom ours to choose that even those who seem in control of their destinies are often the puppets of forces well beyond their ken. Seldom do any of us--wealthy or poor, powerful or insignifi cant--even realize what propels us or impedes us."

I mean I don't think the race is always to the swift or the battle to the strong. I don't think everyone always gets what they deserve, but I notice how almost everyone who's doing alright almost always thinks he deserves all the credit for his good fortune. Just once I'd like to hear someone admit he's NOT a self-made man.

I think you can do everything right and still lose. I don't know why it's that way. It just is.

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all. -- Ecclesiastes 9:11

Frodo: It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill [Gollum] when he had the chance.
Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

I'm supposed to be so far to the right politically, but I'm not very interested in business or economics, or other people's sex lives, or several other things I'm supposed to care about, but don't.

And say I admire and agree. This is territory common to liberal and conservative, and well said.
If you mean that you feel you ought to care about other people's sex lives - as opposed to meaning that people think you care - that is something I see as a problem with conservatism.

i'm doing ok, and i do think a lot of it was lucky breaks. many a man is suffering now for his foolish decisions, which were no worse than my foolish decisions. Being unhappy does not prove you were wrong, or more wrong, than someone else. for me, that is a reason for solidarity with the poor, and obligations laid on the rich, and for some income redistribution to meliorate the extremes of fortune.
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby archenland_knight » 14 Apr 2009, 04:40

cyranorox wrote:If you mean that you feel you ought to care about other people's sex lives - as opposed to meaning that people think you care - that is something I see as a problem with conservatism.


And .... what makes you think conservatives give a rip about anyone else's sex lives? I sincerly have never understood why liberals think this about conservatives. So please, give a specific example of how conservatives care about anyone else's sex life.
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby cyranorox » 14 Apr 2009, 21:31

Well, they oppose gay marriage. they have supported miscegenation laws. Buckley, a famous conservative, wanted to tattoo the butts of gay men who tested positive. they oppose readily available contraception and make a great fuss about teaching abstinence to others. they have supported sodomy laws and prosecutions. they have supported or led projects to remove gay teachers. you can find enough examples.
The broader issue is a pervasive interest in other peoples moral lives. I think this stems from Calvinism and its decay products, though the Counterreformation may have some responsibility. that may warrant its own thread, and go into ideas like covenant vs sonship, american exceptionalism vs traditonal eschatology, etc
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby Xara » 14 Apr 2009, 22:48

cyranorox wrote:Buckley, a famous conservative, wanted to tattoo the butts of gay men who tested positive


Who would that warn? Other gays on the cusp of union? One would hope that the older generation of same sex devotees took the precaution of keeping on their bifocals.

Surely then in order to ensure the efficacy of said skin sign William F. Buckley Jr., American conservative pioneer who died aged 82 in 2008 was subversively encouraging homosexuality. There are lots of pictures of him on Google, but on none of them does he wear bifocals. He wouldn't be able to read his own warning.
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby Karen » 14 Apr 2009, 22:55

Everyone detected with AIDS should be tatooed in the upper forearm, to protect common-needle users, and on the buttocks, to prevent the victimization of other homosexuals.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/07/16/specials/buckley-aids.html
I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby archenland_knight » 15 Apr 2009, 20:51

Cyranorox wrote:Well, they oppose gay marriage.


That has to do with preventing the state from putting a stamp of approval and blessing on activity that many believe to be immoral, not with an interest in what people do in their bedrooms. Whether or not they get married has nothing to do with what they will do behind closed doors. When it comes to the question of "interest in other people's sex lives", this is a non-related issue.

From our point of view, those supporting gay marriage are demanding that the state take an interest in their sex lives that the state doesn't want.

Those of us on the Libertarian edge of concervatism, however, do see a problem here. We lean toward remvoing "marriage" from the realm of a legal/state endorsed institution altogether and leaving it firmly in the hands of the people and their houses of worship. Now, clearly, there would still need to be some sort of "domestic relations contract" laws in place so that households could continue to function. But this wouldn't be the same as the state endorsement implicit in marriage. Admitedly, there are other problems inherent in this, but those are outside the scope of this discussion.

cyranorox wrote:miscegenation laws


Ummm.... not familiar with the term. Is it safe to "google" at work?

cyranorox wrote:Buckley, a famous conservative, wanted to tattoo the butts of gay men who tested positive.


One conservative does not the entire movement make. However, this is no different than wanting to identify anyone with any communicable disease, whether it be an STD or not. This was a health issue, not an interest in what goes on in the bedroom. I think that testing positive was the criteria. I don't think orientation had anything to do with it.

Look, if a person has HIV, then by engaing in sexual activity, the risk the health and, especially a few years back, the life of the person with whom they engage. Surely you don't suggest that they should have been able to engage in such activity without the informed consent of their partner?!?!?

Is a tatoo a bit much? Probably. It also wouldn't be very effective, IMO. But people with HIV should most certainly be required to inform their partners before activity begins. And failure to do should fall under the reckless endagerment statute. It's not about interest in sex lives. It's about interest in keeping people alive.

cyranorox wrote:they oppose readily available contraception and make a great fuss about teaching abstinence to others


I feel like I'm in "opposite world". Doesn't support of the government supplying "readily available" contraception indicate an unhealthy government obsession in other people's sex lives? I say, if someone wants contraception, it's up to them to go get it at any one of a million commercial locations for a very small price. Leave society out of it!

I'm not sure I agree that "a great fuss" has ever been made about teaching abstinence to others. The problem, of course, is that you have public schools teaching anything other than the bare science of sexuality to kids. The public schools teaching any code of morality in relation to this is, for most conservatives, an example the state taking too much interest in other people's sex lives.

Teach the biology in Biology class if you want. Let the parents and church teach the morality. If you want the school to teach the morality, then you are, but definition, advocating that the state take an interest in the students' sex lives. And you're oppsoed to that, right?

Cyranorox wrote: they have supported sodomy laws and prosecutions.


Don't try to blame this on Conservatives!!! These laws were voted in by Democrats and Republicans alike! At one time all 50 states had such laws. No one seriously supports such laws now because it would mean inviting the state into the bedrooms. No conservative wants that.

Cyranorox wrote:they have supported or led projects to remove gay teachers.


Some have, on the same grounds that they woudl support the removal of teachers with a gambling problem or a thief. It's about giving children examples of morality to look up to, not about interest in their sex-lives.

Still, most conservatives would say that if a teacher keeps his/her sex life to themself and doesn't enage in activity with students, we really have no right to even know what their orientation is, much less to fire them over it.

Cyranorox wrote:you can find enough examples.


IMO, you haven't demonstrated any and I don't know of any.
Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
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Re: Does being happy prove you're right?

Postby timoconnor » 25 Jun 2009, 16:28

Sharing your happiness about what is good and sadness about what is bad - this is what makes a man right...
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