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Orthodox church and authority

Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Karen » March 22nd, 2009, 5:27 pm

Hmm. As an American Episcopalian, I see myself as part of the via media between Catholicism and Protestantism. The Anglican tradition takes from, IMO, the best of those strains of Christian thought, and from there allows the individual a lot of latitude in her beliefs. There isn't much Anglican doctrine, per se, but there is Anglican liturgy and practice (which of course varies greatly, from high Anglo-Catholicism to a pronounced informality). The phrase I hear a lot is "if you want to know what we believe, come and worship with us". It's in and through the liturgy that we worship God, get to know each other, and become a community.

The other phrase is the "three-legged stool" of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason. When I was a non-denominational Christian, we had Scripture and (up to a point) Reason, but no Tradition, and I really felt that lack. I very much appreciate the Episcopal Church's embrace of all three.
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby rusmeister » March 22nd, 2009, 6:14 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby rusmeister » March 22nd, 2009, 6:27 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Bluegoat » March 22nd, 2009, 7:01 pm

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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Karen » March 22nd, 2009, 7:16 pm

Last edited by Karen on March 22nd, 2009, 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Karen » March 22nd, 2009, 7:18 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Bluegoat » March 22nd, 2009, 11:40 pm

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Re: Orthodox church and authority

Postby Adam Linton » March 23rd, 2009, 2:54 am

A few comments here and there:

1) In my view, the notion of any one "unchanged" church going back to the beginning, is simply unsustainable--by any and all lines of sight; doctrinal, liturgical, historical, organizational. It just won't hold. This does not mean, however, that things are simply up for grabs. I do believe that there are substantial--indeed profound--Christian continuities. This does mean, however, that the very criteria by which one ponders notions of unity and continuity are (and have been) themselves profoundly open to question; i.e, there are differing sets of these criteria, any number of these which claim basis in primary layers of ecclesiastical antiquity. So while other traditions may certainly claim that they said the words of Scripture "first"--with all due respect and affection, I have to tell you that I--for myself--ain't buyin' it (at least not anymore).

2) I've said it before a number of times in the Wardrobe; and I'll say it here again, although it's a bit blunt. The notion of The Episcopal Church's "total innovation" in sexual perspectives is simply a "dog that just won't hunt." I am convinced--on the basis of both extensive study and extensive, broad-based, long term-observation, as well--that in spite of the ample rhetoric of "offical teaching and discipline," what the church has said that it has believed about homosexuality, has been by and large a smoke screen for a colossal, system-wide "don't ask; don't tell" policy--which all-too-often goes quite toxic in practice. My conviction: The ONLY thing "changed" in the Episcopal Church is the increased candor about what is going on--and with that candor, a refreshing (and much needed) new accountability on sexual matters in the church leadership (especially its top levels). There's no question in my own mind--not only about what works and what does not work--but also which option is more faithful to the Gospel--one of the reasons I am where I now am, ecclesiastically speaking. [And I say this one who is a personally very "straight-arrow," traditionally married kind of guy, by the way.] Please don't ask me to further eloborate or debate on all this; I won't.

3) For what I would say is solid material on liturgical renewal in the Episcopal setting, read Leonel Mitchell's Praying Shapes Believing: A Theological Commentary on the Book of Common Prayer.
Last edited by Adam Linton on March 25th, 2009, 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby rusmeister » March 23rd, 2009, 3:01 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
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Re: Orthodox church and authority

Postby Adam Linton » March 23rd, 2009, 3:30 am

More items for the mix; things that I've found to be important perspectives; hard-fought and hard-won, in my own case.

1) To remain ostensibly "unchanged" in an changed environment is itself a profound change, both exterior and interior.

2) An indespensible part of preserving Christian continuity is a profound, practical appreciation of the saying "Ecclesia Semper Reformanda Est."

3) I found it an inescapable truth that one may be either Ecclesiocentric or Christocentric, but ultimately not both. "No man can serve two masters." This has tremendous implications for all my thinking on church and authority.

These were not "nice" for me to discover, by the way; not at all.
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Re: Orthodox church and authority

Postby rusmeister » March 23rd, 2009, 3:47 am

Last edited by rusmeister on March 23rd, 2009, 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Adam Linton » March 23rd, 2009, 3:49 am

A sweet story Russ, about to twelve year old's visit to Cappadocia. It's impossible though, in its historical details.

There's not the slightest of evidence for any devotion in regard to the Dormition of the Theolokos earlier than the 5th Century--at the earliest. From the descriptions of that chapel, it pretty much has to be mid-Byzantine--at the earliest.

In spite of my stated disagreements, though, I trust that you have picked up that I also have a profoundly enduring affection for and interest in the Orthodox Church--along with respect for much. If nothing else, you surely bank on the fact that I "get" what you're talking about--probably much more vididly than most of your fellow Wardrobians!

All the best to you.
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby Karen » March 23rd, 2009, 12:52 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby rusmeister » March 23rd, 2009, 1:42 pm

Last edited by rusmeister on March 23rd, 2009, 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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Re: Orthadox church and authority

Postby rusmeister » March 23rd, 2009, 2:09 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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