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"Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Plato to MacDonald to Chesterton, Tolkien and the Boys in the Pub.
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re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby Adam Linton » January 7th, 2006, 5:01 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
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Re: re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby TheNarnian » January 8th, 2006, 12:46 am

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re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby Adam Linton » January 8th, 2006, 12:56 am

Back to Beagle's essay: nicely, thoughtfully written; the remark about the Elves predating evil in Middle-earth is, of course, not accurate, but one must remember that this was published in 1966, well before The Silmarillion was available (not to mention The History of Middle-earth). I liked and agree with Beagle's point that readers are drawn to Tolkien because of his writing's authenticity; for which all the gimmicks in the world can never substitute.

My only reservation was Beagle's statement, "Tolkien has wandered in Middle-earth, which exists nowhere but in himself." Don't know about this; it seems that thanks to J.R.R., many of us have been there, too.
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Re: re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby Adam Linton » January 8th, 2006, 1:01 am

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Re: re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby Monica » January 9th, 2006, 10:02 pm

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Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

Postby A#minor » January 16th, 2006, 7:42 pm

Thoughts on Homecoming of Beorhtnoth:

I love how Tolkien uses alliteration so much in all his writings, but here it is more of a historical art form to use it. "The old poem is composed in a free form of the alliterative line, the last surviving fragment of ancient English herioc minstrelsy."
Here's my favorite bit. "I've watched and waited, till the wind sighing was like words whispered by waking ghosts that in my ears muttered."

Can anybody translate the Latin chant at the end?

The commentary speaks of the Old English poem The Battle of Maldon, and of the quote "Will shall be sterner, heart the bolder, spirit the greater as our strength lessens" as being the "finest expression of the northern heroic spirit."

Here is the Northerness that Lewis and Tolkien loved so much.
Wasn't Tolkien in a club of some sort in prep school that was dedicated to northerness and reading Norwegian or something? Lewis was involved in something of the same sort in his first years of college, I think.

*Going to find my Tolkien Biography by Humphrey Carpenter*
Ah, yes, here it is. The T.C.B.S. that met for tea in the library and later in Barrow's Stores (hence the name: Tea Club, Barrow's Stores) to discuss Greek and Latin poetry and (with Tolkien's influence) to read Beowulf, the Pearl, and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, as well as the Norse Volsungasaga.

I found the essay on the "excess" of chivalry to be very interesting and well-written. Beowulf's refusing help or weapon in his fight with Grendel to enhance his personal glory should he win the fight, and Beorhtnoth's allowing the Danes to cross the bridge so that the battle would be "fair", are perfect examples of putting the thing that they are fighting for in danger just for their own ideas of chivalry, glory, and pride.
I think that the illustration of impure gold is very appropriate to show the mingling of chivalry, courage, and foolish pride in the Old English mindset.
"My brain and this world don't fit each other, and there's an end of it!" - G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

Postby Adam Linton » January 16th, 2006, 7:48 pm

[quote="A#minor"]Can anybody translate the Latin chant at the end?[quote]

I can't say that Latin is a strength of mine, but I'll go to work on it.
Last edited by Adam Linton on January 16th, 2006, 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

Postby Adam Linton » January 16th, 2006, 7:56 pm

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Re: Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

Postby A#minor » January 16th, 2006, 11:43 pm

"My brain and this world don't fit each other, and there's an end of it!" - G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

Postby Monica » January 17th, 2006, 2:25 am

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re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby lostentwife » January 17th, 2006, 2:30 am

I saw or dreamed of such,-but let them go- They came like truth, and disappeared like dreams;
-Lord Bryon(from Childe Harold's Pilgrimage Canto lll)
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Re: re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby Adam Linton » January 17th, 2006, 2:15 pm

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re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby Adam Linton » January 17th, 2006, 4:58 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
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re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby A#minor » January 17th, 2006, 5:17 pm

Wow, that's great, Adam! Thankyou so much!

I can just picture those monks waiting for the wagon that brings their dead lord, chanting those words... Do they do it to bring comfort to their quaking hearts? Do they chant because the night is so dark and silent? Or do they only sing because it is tradition, and they believe it will ease the passing spirits of the dead?

(I'm not really looking an answer. I'm just musing.)
And welcome to lostentwife! Glad to have you!
"My brain and this world don't fit each other, and there's an end of it!" - G.K. Chesterton
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re: "Tolkien Reader" Reading Group

Postby lostentwife » January 18th, 2006, 3:08 pm

Thanks for the welcome everyone!
I will join in on "On Fairy-Stories".
As I am working with an emotional mind, I hope my intellect will be able to keep up all of you. :pleased:
I saw or dreamed of such,-but let them go- They came like truth, and disappeared like dreams;
-Lord Bryon(from Childe Harold's Pilgrimage Canto lll)
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