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PostPosted: January 7th, 2008, 1:22 pm
by rusmeister

PostPosted: January 7th, 2008, 8:15 pm
by Dan65802

PostPosted: January 7th, 2008, 11:28 pm
by Stanley Anderson

PostPosted: January 8th, 2008, 2:55 am
by rusmeister

PostPosted: January 8th, 2008, 8:34 am
by David Jack

PostPosted: January 8th, 2008, 3:30 pm
by Dan65802

PostPosted: January 8th, 2008, 3:32 pm
by Dan65802

PostPosted: March 3rd, 2008, 3:17 am
by cyranorox
I just read "Justice", from the Unspoken Sermons. MD cannot accept the atonement theory, and I honor him for this. It is intolerable and makes the Son appear a wimp, the Father a devil.
While I don't generally do proof-text rejoinders, the parable of not getting out till the last penny is paid and the parable of the unjust steward hint at universalism. The liturgies, of lineage ancient and authority high, the writers having read their Bibles and applied God's words, assert that Christ left not one of the dead of all the ages in the tombs. Since we understand being-dead and being-lost as the same thing, this forms a strong basis for universalism.

Origen, who also read his Bible etc, thought universalism was certainly going to come true. Thus he forfeited being a Father of the Church, being condemned, but he's the First Uncle of the Church and much loved. Palamas and Gregory of Nyssa later asserted universalism, and were not condemned. Hans Urs Von Balthazar argued lately that we may hope for it, but not declare it certain, and just this week I heard Met. Kallistos Ware, who pre-eminently reads his Bible etc, concur.

PostPosted: March 3rd, 2008, 4:24 am
by rusmeister

PostPosted: March 4th, 2008, 5:23 am
by cyranorox

PostPosted: March 9th, 2008, 7:20 am
by cyranorox
regarding freewill - god is not judged - he need not show at least one refuser to prove that all had a choice. Nothing would be deranged, nothing upset, if hell is empty.

in fact, it must be possible for all to reject hell, since each has a choice. anyone who says there must be one damned soul also denies freewill.

--living in paradox, with an eschatological tension headache...

PostPosted: March 9th, 2008, 9:31 am
by rusmeister