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Tolkien's Spiders

Plato to MacDonald to Chesterton, Tolkien and the Boys in the Pub.
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Tolkien's Spiders

Postby A#minor » July 6th, 2007, 11:32 pm

"My brain and this world don't fit each other, and there's an end of it!" - G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Tolkien's Spiders

Postby Adam Linton » July 7th, 2007, 5:53 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
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Postby Larry W. » July 7th, 2007, 8:10 pm

I wonder if Tolkien could have seen beauty in a spider's web. I have always been intrigued by photographs of spider webs with dewdrops. Perhaps his feeling toward spiders is similar to mine of gerbils. I was bitten once by a gerbil-- it took several bandages to stop the bleeding. But I have never had a really bad experience with a spider. Aside from cleaning the cobwebs out of my house, I usually leave the spiders alone.

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Re: Tolkien's Spiders

Postby A#minor » July 8th, 2007, 12:39 am

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Postby Guest » July 9th, 2007, 6:10 pm

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Postby A#minor » July 10th, 2007, 12:24 am

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Postby Larry W. » July 10th, 2007, 12:35 am

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Postby contra mundum » July 12th, 2007, 7:33 pm

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Postby Larry W. » July 12th, 2007, 11:53 pm

I think most spiders in Great Britain are probably small and harmless as they are here in at the mid-latitudes in North America. My guess is that the spider that bit Tolkien was only defending itself and presented no great threat to him. There's no reason to fear having spiders in your garden since they might save your plants from insect pests. I never thought Charlotte in Charlotte's Web was very frightening-- more like a real spider than Shelob. Shelob was more like space monster from a low budget sci-fi movie from the 1950's. Interesting idea (like the giant ants in the old Outer Limits series), but not accurate since most spiders are generally beneficial to the natural world. People have also feared bats until recent years, when their positive qualities have been realized.

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Postby A#minor » July 13th, 2007, 12:07 am

I agree with contra mundum that Shelob seems realistic. After all, in a world of dragons and balrogs, a giant spider is not out of place.
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Postby The Pfifltrigg » July 17th, 2007, 5:16 am

Shelob was a well-drawn spider, I think. Drawn to scale. But also remember that Tolkien's evil spiders were also linked to Ungoliant---who was a fallen Maia in the form of a spider. It was her malice combined with the forms and appetites of spiders that made Shelob and the denizens of Mirkwood what they were.
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Postby Larry W. » July 17th, 2007, 12:38 pm

Certain animals have evil characters in Tolkien and Lewis. Wolves and spiders are bad and lions and eagles are good. But aren't these animals all predators in the real world? I find it that birds are considered good. There's a reference to good robins in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and a thrush (closely related to the robin) delivers a message in The Hobbit. These birds are considered friendly to humans-- at least they're well liked in people's gardens. I'm a birder, too and admit to loving these very appealing creatures. I think though that Lewis and Tolkien had bias in creating their fantasy animals. I don't remember any good wolves or spiders or bad lions in their books, although there was one bad cat who lost his speech in The Last Battle.

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Postby contra mundum » July 17th, 2007, 2:10 pm

One interesting contrast between Shelob and the spiders in The Hobbit is that the spiders in The Hobbit speak, and Shelob does not. Her silence probably does not indicate an inability to speak (as Gollum was able to communicate with her), but it certainly has the effect of making her a more terrifyingly realistic as a spider.

Speaking of spiders, wouldn't it be great to have an authoritative account of Beren's journey through the Nan Dungortheb?
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Postby A#minor » July 17th, 2007, 5:52 pm

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Postby Stanley Anderson » July 17th, 2007, 8:25 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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