This forum was closed on October 1st, 2010. However, the archives are open to the public and filled with vast amounts of good reading and information for you to enjoy. If you wish to meet some Wardrobians, please visit the Into the Wardrobe Facebook group.

Article on Chesterton

Plato to MacDonald to Chesterton, Tolkien and the Boys in the Pub.
Forum rules
Please keep all discussion on topic and in line with our code of conduct.

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby rusmeister » June 19th, 2009, 3:04 am

Stating facts is not, unfortunately, a particularly good defense - anybody can cherry-pick the facts they like and ignore the ones they don't.

I think it necessary to say something about 'isms'. A lot of 'isms' today are rhetorical in nature - they are used to assume one attitude and at the same time, prevent further thought on what exactly is meant by the term, whether it be "racism", "sexism", or in this case "anti-semitism".

As soon as the word is invoked, we are supposed to (have been trained to) stop thinking, respond like Pavlov's dogs, and just respond "discrimination - bad!" "tolerance - good!" much in the manner of Orwell's sheep (Animal Farm). The rhetorical term works to bend one to a particular ideological position while circumventing thought. These widely-used rhetorical terms very often perform a 'bait and switch', whereby, upon hearing the term, we have been trained that whatever is being talked about is an unqualified good or evil, without any thinking actually occurring as to whether it is or not. The 'thinking' has already been done for us and the ideological position assumed - and we, growing up in an environment that we did not create, are molded to that environment and accept that thought and position without being aware that we have been indoctrinated. See my post here for more detailed treatment: viewtopic.php?p=197593#p197593

(to believers:) There is a spiritual war going on, and we are all under the influence of the Enemy, whether we realize it or not.
(to unbelievers:) It is possible to have had your thinking formed for you, and your assumptions drilled into you so that they are unquestioned. They are your dogmas, whether you realize it or not. It's done to children all the time. Why should any of us think that we are an exception to that?
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby JRosemary » June 19th, 2009, 11:47 am

User avatar
JRosemary
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Dan65802 » June 19th, 2009, 12:48 pm

Kudos John.

- Dan -
"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King
User avatar
Dan65802
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: Feb 2007

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Adam Linton » June 19th, 2009, 1:25 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
User avatar
Adam Linton
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia Falls, MT

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Adam Linton » June 19th, 2009, 1:30 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
User avatar
Adam Linton
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia Falls, MT

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby rusmeister » June 19th, 2009, 6:03 pm

I completely disagree - at the very least I get a strong sense that no one got what I said at all.
If you use the word "racism", while completely failing to define what that is, you are simply stopping thought and assuming that you know what the thought you are shutting down is and stands for - when that is quite often not the case. The same goes for all other "isms" and buzzwords.
It's one thing to correctly identify hate and unreason and condemn it (something I support). It is altogether another thing to incorrectly identify reason as hate and unreason - which is itself unreason. But that's how the buzzwords are so often used, usually unwittingly.
"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Dan65802 » June 19th, 2009, 6:11 pm

Perhaps (like obsenity), racism is difficult to define since it is a matter of degrees as well as varying cultural acceptance. However (also like obsenity) it's one of those cases where "I know it when I see it " (Justice Potter Stewart).

- Dan -
"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King
User avatar
Dan65802
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: Feb 2007

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby rusmeister » June 20th, 2009, 3:41 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Dan65802 » June 20th, 2009, 6:17 pm

I think even Lewis would have realized that words change meanings with cultures and times. What was considered racist was different in the 1850s than it was in the 1920s and than it is in 2009. What's considered racist in a culture of predominantly one race is different that what's considered racist in a multi-ethnic culture.

Perhaps the definition remains the same but the application changes.

- Dan -
"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King
User avatar
Dan65802
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 2666
Joined: Feb 2007

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby rusmeister » June 21st, 2009, 4:12 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Sven » June 21st, 2009, 11:40 am

User avatar
Sven
 
Posts: 2883
Joined: Aug 1996
Location: Greenbelt, MD, near Washington DC

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby john » June 21st, 2009, 3:27 pm

john
Chief Wardrobian
User avatar
john
Chief Wardrobian
 
Posts: 6495
Joined: Jul 1996
Location: near seattle

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby Tuke » June 21st, 2009, 9:08 pm

"The 'great golden chain of Concord' has united the whole of Edmund Spenser's world.... Nothing is repressed; nothing is insubordinate. To read him is to grow in mental health." The Allegory Of Love (Faerie Queene)

2 Corinthians IV.17 The Weight of Glory
User avatar
Tuke
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 971
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Florida

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby rusmeister » June 22nd, 2009, 1:48 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

Re: Article on Chesterton

Postby rusmeister » June 22nd, 2009, 2:02 am

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
Bill "The Blizzard" Hingest - That Hideous Strength
User avatar
rusmeister
Wardrobian
 
Posts: 1795
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Russia

PreviousNext

Return to Inklings & Influences

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered members and 12 guests

cron