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The Narnian

The man. The myth.

The Narnian

Postby ijohn_patmos » February 16th, 2006, 7:45 am

JACOBS, Alan (author)
THE NARNIAN : The Life and Imagination of CS Lewis, New York, Harper Collins 2005
I have been searching online for references to or commentaries on the abovementioned book, but sadly, without any success, hence the new topic.
I enjoyed “The Narnian” immensely. However, the author’s meaning eludes me where, on pp254-5 he refers to the Lewis outlook on women generally, and, more particularly, his 1948 contribution to the debate about the ordination of women “Priestesses in the Church?”
Jacobs prefaces his remarks by properly describing Lewis’ ‘true image theory’ of the Christian priest as necessarily a man in order “to impersonate (as it were) Jesus Christ” and granted, Lewis’ Christian apologetics are delivered in the pastoral tradition in which controversy is muted. Yet, even so, what I find hard to understand is Jacob’s bold assertion that if Lewis were writing today he “would surely leave the subject alone (i.e. ordination of women) because “what has emerged since Lewis’ death is a large body of orthodox Christians who see no difficulty with the ordination of women”
Yet, this is no novelty. It was ever thus. Since at least New Testament times there have been those (some otherwise near to orthodoxy, some far from it) who ‘see no difficulty with the ordination of women”. Indeed, priestesses were the norm in New Testament times themselves the Jews being, thereby, a conspicuous exception. Nevertheless, the great Church has consistently adhered to her Jewish heritage in this regard although not, of course, in others. One may well ask why this is so and there are various theories including the image theory referred to before. However, all we know, and all we really need to know, is that Christ called only men. So then, at the heart of the matter is a mystery - the mystery of vocation and the sacrament of priestly ordination; part and parcel of orthodoxy.
By the way, when we talk of orthodoxy we refer to a received tradition. If one departs from the tradition in one respect (in this instance ordination of women) one is, ipso facto, unorthodox. Consequently, it doesn’t matter whether or not Lewis anticipated a ‘falling dominoes effect’, as it were, whereby all sorts of other beliefs that have historically constituted orthodoxy would also go into oblivion.
Lewis’ would scarcely have been ignorant about the long and binding precedent for the rejection of women’s ordination. Therefore, for him to leave the subject alone today would seem unlikely, in my opinion.
Any comments?
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re: The Narnian

Postby Steve » February 16th, 2006, 11:27 am

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Re: The Narnian

Postby Karla » February 16th, 2006, 1:40 pm

Grace dances. I would pipe; dance, all of you...

Hymn of Jesus from 'The Acts of John'


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re: The Narnian

Postby NarniaLover89 » February 16th, 2006, 1:59 pm

Christ beside me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ within me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me.-Saint Patrick Of Ierland

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Re: re: The Narnian

Postby ijohn_patmos » February 17th, 2006, 12:08 am

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Re: The Narnian

Postby Adam Linton » February 17th, 2006, 4:17 pm

we have not loosely through silence permitted things to pass away as in a dream
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Re: The Narnian

Postby mjmann » February 17th, 2006, 5:51 pm

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Re: The Narnian

Postby Stanley Anderson » February 17th, 2006, 6:31 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: The Narnian

Postby Karen » February 17th, 2006, 6:42 pm

I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library. -- Jorge Luis Borges
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re: The Narnian

Postby rusmeister » February 17th, 2006, 6:55 pm

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Re: The Narnian

Postby Stanley Anderson » February 17th, 2006, 7:08 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: The Narnian

Postby mjmann » February 18th, 2006, 10:07 am

Hello Stanley,

You make a good point. Judging by his letter to Dorothy Sayers (dated 13.7.48) Lewis certainly thought that it would be appropriate for a woman to respond to the question of priestesses in the Church of England. However, I wouldn't necessarily conclude from this that Lewis wished to stay out of the fray on this issue. As mentioned above, Lewis wrote to Sayers in the middle of July. DLS wrote back on the 19th July to decline the request. By the time that Lewis wrote back to her on the 20th July, he had already written his article for Time and Tide. As an aside, if I read his letter to Sayers correctly, it looks like 'Notes on the Way' was the name of the column into which Lewis's short essay was inserted, rather than the actual essay itself.

I have been thinking about this matter since last night, and looking back at my response to Adam Linton above, I must confess to finding myself dissatisfied with my post. When I wrote it I had not yet looked at my copy of The Narnian and I think I did not keep John Patmos's post in mind. Subsequently, I mentioned Priestesses in the Church? as if it had not been spoken of already, which was lazy of me.

Having read Mr Jacobs's comments on Priestesses? I do think that they present a challenge by suggesting that Lewis only wrote his Note because the issue of priestesses was not a controversial one between Christians in the manner, say, of devotion to the Blessed Virgin, and so on. If that was the case, then maybe he would have kept mum if he was writing today. John Patmos gives his response to Jacobs's suggestion. To authenticate it, though, I suppose we would need to do some research into the history of the belief that there should be Christian priestesses.

If we allow Jacobs his point, perhaps there is another way of looking at the question - and here I am thinking aloud - which is simply by looking at whether Lewis spoke about issues of controversy between Christians in his work. Off the top of my head, I would say that in his apologetical works, he does steer clear of controversies. To use a cricketing term, he plays with a straight bat! However, as Priestesses? shows Lewis's apologetical works involved more than radio talks and speeches. He wrote essays for newspapers and journals, he engaged in verbal debates and brought his theology to bear on his fiction also. And in these media he could be more forthcoming in his theological views. I suppose what I am proposing is that Lewis wrote for two audiances: (i) Non Christians in front of whom he remained the mere Christian (ii) Christians in front of whom he was prepared to discuss more controversial issues. The one controversial doctrine that immediately comes to mind is that of Purgatory. I think also of Lewis's speech (?) on the Reunion of Catholic Church and C of E. Maybe there are others? If there are, I am in he right, if not, well, I have learnt something.

I personally am not inclined to grant Jacobs his point. I think that Lewis would have written Priestesses in the Church? today. The matter is of such great import within the Church of England and probably of equally great confusion in the secular world - why are they worrying about this thing? - that he would have been prevailed upon to at least refer if not explain it. Given his views, I might wonder if Lewis would stay within the Church of England. Perhaps he would have under one of the more traditional bishops. We will certainly never know the answer to that question.

As I sit here reading over the post now, there is one dominant feeling that I have which is that there is much more that could be said about this interesting subject! Nevertheless, I hope I have not spoken overlong on it.

Malcolm
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Re: re: The Narnian

Postby mjmann » February 18th, 2006, 10:12 am

Hello Rusmeister,

I prefer Malcolm. I think you are right about the 'Western Trait'. And not just in Protestantism either. I think there are many within the Catholic Church - to which I belong - who like to do their own thing too.

Malcolm
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re: The Narnian

Postby NarniaLover89 » February 18th, 2006, 11:44 pm

But over all I stell thought it was a good book.
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Re: The Narnian

Postby Theo » February 19th, 2006, 1:03 am

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