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Lewis' women characters

The man. The myth.

17
47%
9
25%
1
3%
0
No votes
8
22%
1
3%
 
Total votes : 36

Re: re: Lewis' women characters

Postby wood-maid » July 3rd, 2006, 4:26 am

"Jill," said Tirian, "you are the bravest and most wood-wise of all my subjects, but also the most malapert and disobedient."
"By the Mane!" he whispered to Eustace. "This girl is a wondrous wood-maid. If she had Dryad's blood in her she could scarce do it better." - The Last Battle
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby rusmeister » July 3rd, 2006, 9:31 am

Here's one of (evidently) a number of essays on the topic.



Here's a general one of all of Chesterton's works:



And 2 other super sites for GKC:





Chesterton is quite as impressive as Lewis - had he known about Orthodoxy, he probably would have converted to that rather than Catholicism. It is interesting that many of his writings are prior to his conversion, only 14 yrs before his death.
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby wood-maid » July 6th, 2006, 2:09 am

Great, thanks! I'll enjoy looking over those.
"Jill," said Tirian, "you are the bravest and most wood-wise of all my subjects, but also the most malapert and disobedient."
"By the Mane!" he whispered to Eustace. "This girl is a wondrous wood-maid. If she had Dryad's blood in her she could scarce do it better." - The Last Battle
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby King Edmund » July 6th, 2006, 10:37 pm

Ok
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby Periel Andae » September 22nd, 2006, 3:11 am

Most people have voted #1 - Sure, Lewis' women were great.
I disagree, & voted for the last option. Lewis was unable to write believable women, which is unrelated to the fact that he is a man, since other men can write women.
Don't get me wrong, Lewis is my favourite author. But as a woman, I think his woman characters lack depth. He fails to understand the unique soul, or psychology, of a woman.
Other authors have done worse, but it still stands that Lewis' women reach me in all other areas (spiritully, philosophically, culinarially :toothy-grin: ), but I cannot believe them as women.
It's the only writing flaw of his that I've noticed.

Of course, we're leaving TWHF out of this. Those women had much more depth.

I wonder if it's a characteristic of male fantasy writers -to not understand women. Because from my perspective, Lewis, Tolkien, and Lawhead all seem to have difficulties portraying women.
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby Periel Andae » September 22nd, 2006, 3:17 am

Just thought of something -Charles Williams, one of the Inklings, and a friend of Lewis, was also an author. (Lewis' THS shows strong influence by Williams.) His women came out much more true and believable. My name is a slight tribute to one of his women.
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby JRosemary » September 22nd, 2006, 2:46 pm

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Re: re: Lewis' women characters

Postby nomad » September 22nd, 2006, 10:57 pm

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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby interloper » September 25th, 2006, 2:49 am

I think the question is perhaps a bit of a side issue, since the ability of a writer to portray characters in general, and the personalities of men and women in particular, is mainly (though by no means exclusively) relevant to novelists, and as a writer CS Lewis was not primarily a novelist. I cannot with competence comment on the space trilogy, for I've only read one of them (THS) and that was many years ago. But I can form a view about the Narnia stories - and it is mainly as the author of those, and hence as a novelist, that he is remembered by people in general. There I think he portrayed the 'real' people very well (ie sons of Adam and daughters of Eve), but of course these were all children. I say this with the experience of seeing the way my own children responded to the stories as they were growing up (I have one son and one daughter).

One mark of a good novelist I believe is the ability to write in such a way that it's not obvious, as you get into the story, whether it was written by a man or by a woman. Very few authors seem capable of this, without letting a clue slip out here and there. Two outstanding examples in my own (fairly limited) experience of novel reading are Dorothy L Sayers and Nevil Shute. This is principally an observation on the ability of the writer to portray both male and female characters with understanding and impartiality, leaving no room for comments like 'a typical man's way of describing a woman' or 'a typical woman's way of describing a man'. Of course there are other aspects of Nevil Shute's novels that leave you in no doubt that it's a man writing (for instance his extensive knowledge, born of experience, of aircraft engineering), but he portrays all his characters well, male and female, with a pleasing absence of sexist bias.

By contrast, the Miss Silver crime fiction books by Patricia Wentworth (Dora Turnbull) are so patently and obviously written by a woman. She describes her female characters, both the 'goodies' and 'badies', very well, but she is hopeless at portraying male characters of any sort properly (with the possible exception of young boys, who crop up now and again in the stories). Neverthelss I'm very fond of the Miss Silver books, and frequently re-read them. To keep things balanced, I feel the same way about Freeman Wills Crofts, another crime fiction writer (this probably says something about my reading habits). His plots are brilliant, his way of telling the story has the reader spell-bound and his style of writing is pleasurable and relaxing. But as a creator of female characters he's a non-starter. I think he probably realised this himself and got round the problem by making virtually all of his main characters men.

To return to CS Lewis, I think he himself was conscious of an inadequacy in projecting the character and personality of women, in fact he virtually said so (where was it he said "I cannot speak for married women, because I am neither married nor a woman"?). But then it was typical of the man to be ingenuous in this way. To digress a little, an interesting line of conjecture is this: if God wanted to choose a writer of children's books that would become a legend in their day and in succeeding generations, and which would convey an unmistakable message of Christian truth, what sort of person would He choose? No doubt someone in their late thirties or early forties, with growing-up children of their own, and with wider experience of children as well - a primary school teacher perhaps, preferably with a degree in child psychology. Not a bit of it! He chooses a stuffy middle-aged bachelor, an Oxford don steeped in Medieval and Renaissance literature. But a man honest before God and people: "I wrote the sort of stories I myself wanted to read as a child". And to be safe, he makes the most important points concerning a person's obedience (or otherwise) to God using children as his subjects - perhaps that is a lesson in itself.
Last edited by interloper on September 25th, 2006, 3:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby VixenMage » September 25th, 2006, 3:32 am

I think that one thing that had a tremendous effect on Lewis' women characters was that he really... well, he was raised by his father, and didn't meet Joy until late in his life. So, he really wasn't greatly influenced by women. It's kind of odd... there's Tolkien's woman characters, who are usually quite strong: take Galadriel, or Eowyn, or Arwen. Then there's Lewis' woman characters (minus those of TWHF): Tinidril, who, despite her divinity, is innocent and... well... weak. "The King is always older than I, and in all things." That passage always drove me crazy. Why does the King always have to be wiser? Lucy, Susan, Jane... I don't know. It just bothered me a lot that his women were always so... dependent.

But Orual and Psyche were different. Maybe that's because after he met Joy, he realized... that women were, after all, not weaker (not that way, anyway) or sillier... Eh. I don't know. Late-night ramblings. It just seems like all his woman characters, minus Orual and Psyche were... stereotypically weak.

But, like I said, this is just ramblings at half-till-midnight.
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re: Lewis' women characters

Postby Solomons Song » September 25th, 2006, 11:40 pm

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Re: re: Lewis' women characters

Postby Sarah N. » September 29th, 2006, 6:08 am

Live in the world as if only God and your soul were in it; then your heart will never be made captive by any earthly thing. ~ St. John of the Cross

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Postby throughlkglass » February 16th, 2007, 2:48 am

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Postby loeee » February 21st, 2007, 9:21 pm

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Put on the full armor of God.
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Postby King Edmund » February 28th, 2007, 4:40 pm

Without my friends or cousins, I don't make sense. Life would be somewhere not worth my time.

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