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Lewis and Native Americans (a.k.a. American Indians)

The man. The myth.

Lewis and Native Americans (a.k.a. American Indians)

Postby Solomons Song » September 28th, 2006, 12:11 am

Other than in Letters when Lewis had to decline an offer to visit America, did Lewis ever express an interest in Native American culture. It seems like I remember reading somewhere that he was enamored with it.

The reason I am asking is because I sometimes attend meetings in my hometown of the local historical society. This time, they had some Cherokee (Keetoowah) Indians come show some artifacts and perform some ancient dances. I couldn't help but think, "Jack would have loved this."
Last edited by Solomons Song on September 28th, 2006, 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Mavramorn » September 28th, 2006, 12:54 am

I recall reading in one of his books that he like Fenimore Coopers works (Last of the Mohicans etc) because of all the, as he called it, 'red-skinnery'.
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Larry W. » September 28th, 2006, 3:12 am

There is an essay On Stories in the book Of Other Worlds in which Lewis talks about an American pupil who had told him about how he liked James Fenimore Cooper's stories for the excitement they had provided. (Of Other Worlds, page 4) Lewis pointed out to him how one should read Indian stories because they are about that world, e.g. James Fenimore Cooper's stories have the atmosphere of Indian life and the American frontier. The tomahawks, wigwams, and the forest are all part of the atmosphere of that kind of story. Without the realism it wouldn't be that kind of story, no matter how much excitement there is in the plot. Lewis admitted that he had never read Cooper, but he had enjoyed many other Indian tales.

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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby rusmeister » September 28th, 2006, 4:46 am

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Re: re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Larry W. » September 28th, 2006, 11:52 am

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Re: re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Monica » September 28th, 2006, 2:18 pm

Fascinating discussion, especially the idea of how long you have to live somewhere before you can be considered native. Are the descendants of King Frank and Queen Helen the only Native Narnians? Do the Telmarines not count beause they came later -- even though they inhabited Narnia for hundreds of years?

Surely a few thousand years of living in America should silence any argument about where the First Americans really came from. After a few thousand years, wherever you are is where you came from.
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Re: re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Stanley Anderson » September 28th, 2006, 3:38 pm

…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Leslie » September 28th, 2006, 5:02 pm

"What are you laughing at?"
"At myself. My little puny self," said Phillipa.
--Rumer Godden, In This House of Brede
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby woodelk » September 28th, 2006, 5:49 pm

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Re: re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby rusmeister » September 28th, 2006, 6:07 pm

"Eh? Two views? There are a dozen views about everything until you know the answer. Then there's never more than one."
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Joshua » September 28th, 2006, 6:35 pm

The European settlers of America and the subsequent American government found native peoples living on this continent. At what point do they cease to be the "native peoples" that we found living here? I may be a native American for having been born in America, but relative to the descendants of those native peoples, I am no native.

The American Indians (as I've heard the younger generation of Native Americans prefer to be called) who we found living on this land were treated terribly for many, many years. There's not enough, in my opinion, that we can do to make it up to them. The least we can give to these people (from whom, by the way, I have never heard a complaint or a demand for any kind of reparation from the US government, nevermind insistence upon a PC term by which to be called)-- the least we can give to these long-suffering peoples is the name by which they prefer to be called.

When I'm done with school, I hope to teach on a reservation somewhere out in the western US. There's lots that can and should be done to alleviate the substandard living conditions on many Indian reservations, and that's the type of thing that should get some attention, not our right to be called "native Americans."
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby loeee » September 28th, 2006, 6:36 pm

Just as a point of information, I can recall one reference by Lewis to "red indians." What I cannot recall is where he so refered to them.
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re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby Solomons Song » September 28th, 2006, 10:17 pm

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Re: re: Lewis and Native Americans

Postby loeee » September 28th, 2006, 11:58 pm

"You can't go walking through Mordor in naught but your skin."
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re: Lewis and Native Americans (a.k.a. American Indians)

Postby rusmeister » September 29th, 2006, 4:27 am

Hi, SS,
I understand what you're saying and generally agree (especially on valuing the past). The one thing, and with Joshua's comment too, is on the concept of what exactly is considered "indigenous", and when a body can qualify for that status, and whether the concept should be applied relatively.
I disagree with you, Joshua, on the idea of "relative to them". Applied, I could use that to equally snub the grandchildren of immigrants and insist on my being native relative to them. Either there is a benchmark of what makes one native, a period of time, or there is not. The simple fact of being born and raised in one place would be the criterium. The former is clearly unreasonable, and anyone could make out any period of time that they felt good.
Finally, the idea that we can "make it up to them" is useless and wrong. There is nothing 'we' can do to make it up to 'them'. The most I can do is to treat everyone in a Christian manner. I am not responsible for the sins of my ancestors, but my own sins. Every move to treat groups differently lead to resentment by others. Witness the quota concept applied in Affirmative Action. Stopping discriminatory treatment of people is a good goal. Giving preferential treatment to anyone will only extend a sense of enmity, generation after generation. I'll repeat, because it bears repeating:
Lands where people become one people and unite will always be stronger than ones that try to maintain ethnic separation. A melting pot produces far stronger material than a salad bowl.
The only way to get unity is to treat everyone the same.

Anyway, 'nuff said. I only wanted to challenge assumptions behind the current popular term NA

PS - look at the identity problem of other people whose names keep getting changed - black people, handicapped people. It's intersting how when they change a name, within one generation (some) people decide the current term is pejorative and change it. Help me supply missing links in these evolutionary chains:
crippled - handicapped - disabled - living with disabilities
Negro - colored - people of color - black - Afr. Am

Attempts to be overly sensitive and avoid calling spades spades lead to this confusion. This constant chameleon-like change of names tells me something is wrong with the changing itself. Interesting also that 'white' people haven't gone this path. I'm actually pinkish, but don't mind a color misnomer. Chesterton said something about this in Heretics (under the chapter on George Bernard Shaw, ch 4).

http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/%7Emward/gkc/b ... s/ch4.html

Start from the 5th paragraph if you are pressed for time.
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