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Re: Questions about The Screwtape Letters

PostPosted: January 4th, 2010, 10:01 am
by richard_dawkins

Re: Questions about The Screwtape Letters

PostPosted: January 4th, 2010, 8:12 pm
by jo
Oh well, you did recommend that he find another forum so I will consider that I have carte blanche to post this ;)

http://europeforum.12.forumer.com/index.php

We're about fifty fifty theist/non theist. No discussions out of bounds as long as people are polite.

Re: Questions about The Screwtape Letters

PostPosted: January 5th, 2010, 6:12 am
by rusmeister

Re: Questions about The Screwtape Letters

PostPosted: January 5th, 2010, 4:27 pm
by Theophilus
Here is another good site where you can debate Christianity:

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.com

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: January 5th, 2010, 9:47 pm
by Sven
Split this digression and moved here. Please keep the discussion referenced to C. S. Lewis. If it degenerates to a generalized debate this thread will be locked.

Re: Questions about The Screwtape Letters

PostPosted: January 6th, 2010, 1:25 am
by AllanS

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 4th, 2010, 12:20 am
by cyranorox
If your topic is really epistemology, I would hope John does not clamp on the lid. Especially in a thread where I find myself in agreement with AK, except for the Platonizing idea of spirit-in-container.

Re: Questions about The Screwtape Letters

PostPosted: March 10th, 2010, 4:32 pm
by Nerd42

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 14th, 2010, 7:17 pm
by postodave
It's a while since I was a regular contributor here - since John closed down the Religion, Science and Philosophy forum I've felt that this site was missing something vital. There is only so far you can go in discussing Lewis before you get into stuff that is not about Lewis for the reasons which Rus has explained above. We never had many debates with atheists on this site but the ones we had were interesting and never as far as I can remember strayed into regions where the discussion could be called offensive or abusive. The debate that got RSP closed down was between two Orthodox Christians disagreeing about Orthodoxy. I don't think there is any significance that the Christians in question were Orthodox, they could have easily been Reformed or Catholic. The point is that which such debates take place people more or less accuse each other of not being Orthodox (or Reformed or Catholic or Biblical or whatever) enough. And these are often more fierce than debates between Christian on Atheist debates. After all we Christians expect atheists to disagree with us, we even expect different types of Christians to disagree to some extent but when it is someone who in theory shares the same position as us we feel undermined, as if our solution to the world's woes might not be THE solution after all. But perhaps there is a different psychology behind this the closer the perspective the fiercer the debate thing.

Anyway it was, in my opinion and after due reflection, a huge mistake by John to close down RSP. Debate between Christians and atheists (but not inter or intra denominational debate) was a vital part of what Lewis was about and it is not really possible to discus Lewis's ideas without straying into these broader debates about the limits of reason and science, about the nature of time (is Lewis's brand of neo-platonism valid? I think not because it tries to give positive content to the concept of God being outside time rather than treating that apophatically) and so on. I would like to join in such a discussion but not if it is in danger of being shut down at any moment because someone steps over a line visible only to John and Sven.

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 14th, 2010, 10:47 pm
by wondawomen
Cool!

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 15th, 2010, 3:17 pm
by Nerd42

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 15th, 2010, 4:29 pm
by john

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 15th, 2010, 7:37 pm
by postodave
Thanks for the reply John. I won't dwell on this because it will take us off topic. Briefly - it's hard to police a tone and it's hard to say at what point someone becomes abusive. I mean it really is hard even face to face; an outsider listens to a couple who have been together for years and he can see abuse that the people in the relationship cannot. Lewis did sometimes get carried away in debate and he felt it was fine to tell an opponent not to talk damned nonsense, which is pretty strong language. For myself I think the frustrating moment comes when something is clear to me and the person I'm debating with seems not to see it and then I want to push back further into the assumptions behind what my opponent is saying and at some point that triggers a response from the other person that implies they feel abused. I never feel I am being abusive just as the other person never feels they are. I thought the debate that lead to the closing of RSP had got a bit silly but I didn't find anything offensive about it. So it's difficult for me to come up with solutions because I never really saw there being a problem. If I felt someone was insulting me I'd probably back out of that discussion but I wouldn't get offended and I don't see why anyone reading the debate would get offended on my behalf.

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 15th, 2010, 7:58 pm
by postodave

Re: Time and Truth

PostPosted: March 15th, 2010, 8:58 pm
by john