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Tashbaan picture

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Tashbaan picture

Postby Stanley Anderson » 13 Jul 2004, 01:15

Somewhere (I can't locate it now) I mentioned scanning a favourite picture of Tashbaan and posting it here. Since I can't find the thread, I'm just posting it here on this new thread.

--Stanley

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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby Leslie » 13 Jul 2004, 01:22

What a wonderful picture! Thanks.

BTW, I'm guessing the T. Kirk is not Captain Tiberius ;)
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby Steve » 15 Jul 2004, 10:09

Interesting -- so the temple of Tash has a narrow pointy towers like mosques. Do the priests of Tash go up the tower five times a day to call the population to pray?
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby archenland_knight » 11 Feb 2009, 22:43

Leslie wrote:BTW, I'm guessing the T. Kirk is not Captain Tiberius ;)


Are you saying that "The Captain" wouldn't be a Narnia fan?!?!?! Preposterous!!

(And does this set any kind of record for reviving an old thread? :toothy-grin: )

Steve wrote:Interesting -- so the temple of Tash has a narrow pointy towers like mosques. Do the priests of Tash go up the tower five times a day to call the population to pray?


As someone else pointed out once, the Calormen seem to be much more reminicient of pre-Muslim Arab culture, or at least Arab culture as it was inaccurately perceieved by medevial Europeans. We are told specifically that there is an idol of Tash in the temple in Tashbaan, and yet we know that Islam would never allow an image of Mohamed, let alone Allah, in one of their mosques.
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other old stuff

Postby carol » 13 Feb 2009, 09:41

Stanley, while you're digging into your archives, do you by any chance have a copy of the "Posts" poem written some ten years back by Alan (of Tasmania)?

I know there was a poem and a reply poem, but I'm not sure which order they came in - I think his was a reply to someone else's.

- Mini at your service (and your family's)
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby moogdroog » 14 Feb 2009, 11:52

That's a lovely picture. I like the angle and perspective of it very much. I've always wished I could draw pictures of buildings, I'm rubbish at it.
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby Stanley Anderson » 15 Feb 2009, 04:57

moogdroog wrote:That's a lovely picture. I like the angle and perspective of it very much.


Funny. Now that you mention it, I think the "angle and perspective" is probably also exactly (or at least a big part of) what makes the picture your avatar comes from so appealing (and I know we both love many of the same things about it from our discussion way back when you first joined the forums). I never would have connected the two images, but thinking about it now, I see that they are very similar that way. What do you think?

--Stanley
…on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a fair green country under a swift sunrise.
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby Coyote Goodfellow » 15 Feb 2009, 05:04

Archenland Knight wrote
As someone else pointed out once, the Calormen seem to be much more reminicient of pre-Muslim Arab culture, or at least Arab culture as it was inaccurately perceieved by medevial Europeans. We are told specifically that there is an idol of Tash in the temple in Tashbaan, and yet we know that Islam would never allow an image of Mohamed, let alone Allah, in one of their mosques.


The scimitars, reflexive speech patterns: "the Tisroc, may he live forever" Aravis' attitude toward her servant girl (sort of like some things I have heard about Pashtun Afghani attitudes to the Hazara in books like the _Kite Runner) all strike me as refractions of Arab culture--probably in keeping with Medieval attitudes. In the Song of Roland, the Arabs are pictured as worshipping idols as well--ones which are not as powerful as Tash turns out to be in the Last Battle.

Aslan is not exactly medieval Christianity (no churches, no monks, the closest thing to certain forms of processions is probably Puzzle parading about in a lionskin), and the 12 Carlomene gods are not exactly the Muslim religion either. But the tension between the two cultures is I think supposed to recreate some of the relationship between Christendom and the Caliphate--but may also include elements of the relationship between Israel and Babylon in the Old Testament--and possibly even elements of the relationship between England and Germany--especially under the National Socialists, who were also big on Birds of Prey imagery. I doubt Lewis had a one to one correspondence in mind. It's the type of portrayal which draws a lot of criticism from people influenced by Edward Said's _Orientalism. But, for all that--characters like Emeth and Aravis--or even Rishdaa Tarkaan seem more real and human than would be possible if Lewis were trying to write a politically correct fairy tale in which deep down everyone is all alike.
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby moogdroog » 16 Feb 2009, 14:37

Stanley Anderson wrote:
moogdroog wrote:That's a lovely picture. I like the angle and perspective of it very much.


Funny. Now that you mention it, I think the "angle and perspective" is probably also exactly (or at least a big part of) what makes the picture your avatar comes from so appealing (and I know we both love many of the same things about it from our discussion way back when you first joined the forums). I never would have connected the two images, but thinking about it now, I see that they are very similar that way. What do you think?

--Stanley


I would never have guessed that by myself, but I think you are completely right. I took the liberty of placing the pictures side by side:

Image

There seems to be something intrinsically similar in the way the pictures work. Firstly, the eye is drawn 'downwards'. Maybe that is created in the Tashbaan picture by having the (emphasised) ships in the foreground but at the bottom, and by the downwards sweep the line of seagulls creates at the top. It is quite similar to the downwards sweep of the falling cards, and having (the emphasised) Alice in the foreground, but also at the bottom of the picture, so your eye, to focus on its main object, has to look down.

And while that is happening, your brain is also telling you to look 'up', with the rising buildings in the Tashbaan picture, and Alice and the animals kind of rising (flailing about) in upwards motion. I think the whole effect is pleasantly disorientating and a bit dizzying - like craning your neck upwards to see a very tall building and feeling overwhelmed by the 'bigness' of it.

Also, there's something stern and a little frightening and overwhelming in the 'bigness' of the buildings in the Tashbaan picture, compounded by how they isolate the main object of the picture (the ships). There's a similar, slightly frightening sense in the Alice picture, of Alice being somehow isolated and at the mercy of the 'downwards' motion of the cards falling about her.
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby Stanley Anderson » 16 Feb 2009, 16:18

Yes, you've described it (as usual) perfectly. I would add that the "direction" of the leaning and sweep is the same in both -- from lower right to upper left. And it is curious that the oarsman with his pole (and the crossbar of the sail in the other boat) match the lizard (and other animals) and cards in the fact that they slant in the other direction (from lower left to upper right) and in virtually the same place. You can almost see that oarsman's figure as a sort of Tashbaanese lizard in the Alice picture:-). If one were going to go all out in the comparison, I suppose one could compare Alice's head with the prominent pointed dome (what is the name for that shape?), as well as the pattern on her dress with the suggestion of brickwork on the sides of the structures in the Tashbaan image and her tie around her waist and the wall-top edges in the buildings. Oh, and look -- I just noticed that the numbers on the cards near her hands appear to spell the word Tashbaan...(ok,ok, just kidding:-)

But in any case, it is oddly wonderful to think that two of my alltime favourite images could be so seemingly different on the surface and yet had such striking similarities all along that I never noticed before. It reminds me very much of the sudden realization of striking similarity I had sometime back about my two favourite Lewis passages. Again, they were from completely different sources and up to that point never consciously struck me as having the same appeal until a lightning bolt of recognition struck me one day. Here they are. One is from the chapter "The Heavens" from Lewis' book about the Medieval world view The Discarded Image and the other is from the last paragraph of the chapter "Fog" in That Hideous Strength:

[from pp 98-99 of my edition of The Discarded Image]:

The really important difference is that the medieval universe, while unimaginably large, was also unambiguously finite. And one unexpected result of this is to make the smallness of Earth more vividly felt. In our [ie, modern view] universe she is small, no doubt; but so are the galaxies, so is everything – and so what? But in theirs there was an absolute standard of comparison…The word ‘small’ as applied to Earth thus takes on a far more absolute significance…to look out on the night sky with modern eyes is like looking out over a sea that fades away into mist, or looking about one in a trackless forest – trees forever and no horizon. To look up at the towering medieval universe is much more like looking at a great building. The ‘space’ of modern astronomy may arouse terror, or bewilderment or vague reverie; the spheres of the old present us with an object in which the mind can rest, overwhelming in its greatness but satisfying in its harmony. That is the sense in which our universe is romantic, and theirs was classical



[from the last paragraph of the chapter “Fog” in That Hideous Strength]:

"...it was lighter. She looked ahead; surely that bend in the road was more visible than it ought to be in such a fog? Or was it only that a country fog was different from a town one? Certainly what had been grey was becoming white, almost dazzlingly white. A few yards further and luminous blue was showing overhead, and trees cast shadows (she had not seen a shadow for days), and then all of a sudden the enormous spaces of the sky had become visible and the pale golden sun, and looking back, as she took the turn to the Manor, Jane saw that she was standing on the shore of a little green sun-lit island looking down on a sea of white fog, furrowed and ridged yet level on the whole, which spread as far as she could see. There were other islands too. That dark one to the west was the wooded hills above Sandown where she had picnicked with the Dennisons; and the far bigger and brighter one to the north was the many caverned hills -- mountains one could nearly call them -- in which the Wynd had its source. She took a deep breath. It was the size of this world above the fog which impressed her. Down in Edgestow all these days one had lived, even when out-of-doors, as if in a room, for only objects close at hand were visible. She felt she had come near to forgetting how big the sky is, how remote the horizon.


I'm struck too, by the fact that Lewis' line from The Discarded Image above, "the spheres of the old present us with an object in which the mind can rest, overwhelming in its greatness but satisfying in its harmony" seem to apply to Tim Kirk's depiction of Tashbaan (wheels within wheels, as they say:-)

--Stanley
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Re: Tashbaan picture

Postby StellerD » 08 Sep 2009, 03:49

The bridge leading into the circular tashbaan always got my imagination flying like wild. It would just be so epic! walking out of a dusty and hot desert onto a giant stone bridge leading over a giant lake, cool breeze rifleing through your hair, it would be such a relief!
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